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Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

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Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#121
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems quite clear to me - the authors lose their livelihood. Authors can (and generally do) write at home, and they can (and generally do) sell e-books. Their livelihoods are not inherently at risk because of a quarantine. This action puts their livelihoods at risk. You can certainly argue that they shouldn't have such a livelihood for whatever reason, but the fact remains that they do . You may as well ask, what…

Why must you twist everything to make victims where you are the theoretical aggressor while comparing your desired outcome against what could conceivably happen should your proposed solutions be ignored? Is this a trick of some sort? A legalese technique? I am legitimately confused.

I don’t see them twisting anything. Their arguments are the most basic standard knowledge on the economics of IP, and you just continue to refuse engaging with them with anything but superficial slogans.

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#122

> What about those who say we’re stealing from authors & publishers? Has any normal human being who is not a publisher or an author actually made this claim?

I‘m neither author nor publisher. And, yes, I think that argument is essentially correct. People on the internet like to get hung up on the differences (zero marginal costs etc) but that doesn’t really matter for the core of the argument: if piracy becomes widespread, writing will no longer be a viable vocation, and new books being published will drop dramatically.

For music, people loved to insist musicians should just get by with live shows. Nothing similar exists for authors, so I’m waiting to see if there’s some other cop-out people come up with.

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#123
There is an easy solution to this problem. All libraries that are closed world wide report which books they have available at the moment to the Internet archive who then lends it out digitally. Then every lend is backed by a physical copy.

I bet the usual suspects would still complain. It is very hard to feel for publishers if one looks at all the shenanigans they do around eBook lending. Libraries tend to pay significantly more than other bulk buyers for the same books and there is a limited number of "lends" on the books for example.

https://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-news/here-is-a-breakdown...

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#124
post #29

Given that this is a time of emergency, I think that definitely a good argument can be made for relaxing copyright laws. That said, many commenters on this subject are extending the discussion into a general discussion on the value of copyright, and there I cannot fully agree with the notion that copyright is a bad thing. I pirate stuff too (although I try to limit my piracy) but one difference between me and many ot…

I pirate stuff too (although I try to limit my piracy) but one difference between me and many other pirates is that I know that I am sometimes hurting people when I pirate. Question: Is losing a sale when it would otherwise be necessarily a moral harm?

If piracy could be limited to cases where people would not have bought the work in question, that would be ideal. You’d get fanatical support from creators who, after all, do enjoy people reading their work.

But that’s just not realistic, is it? There are schemes that approximate this, using price discrimination. Libraries are among them, allowing people to read works for free or nearly free by investing the time and/or inconvenience. The staggered release of expensive hard-bound and cheaper paperback editions serve the same purpose.

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#125
post #18

There are lots of children still going to school, and there's no simple way for them to obtain books that previously would have been available for free. It is sort of a reading emergency! Now where I live the library system is awesome, and I found the selection was way better than Barnes & Noble. Libraries purchase a lot of books every year and it's no small amount of money. That being said it's also wasteful for man…

Having a home library has many more functions than just storing books you've once read. It's a signaling device; it's a way to show your character:; it's a way to have a possibility to share materials with others; it's a way to show your children your values; it's a reminder of things you've learned; it's soothing for many to have books around; they can be a useful reference or inspiration; ...

Books are not just a throwaway product like a daily newspaper - they have many roles to play.

I am moving away from kindle for exactly these reasons above; I'm sad I don't have these benefits with the many books I read digitally.

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#127

I think the virus situation is exposing the difference in what rules or behavior people / companies think society will put up with, and what people will really put up with / want when push comes to shove. (And, by the way, in so many things, not just this story.)

The world has been a cooking timebomb and COVID is a fuse. We're about to see layers of bullshit blown away, and believe me, our society is caked in it - in advertising, in politics, in entertainment, in industry. Nothing feels genuine anymore. Race to the bottom dollar with MBA style, soul sucking optimization throughout. A cleansing fire, perhaps; a deserved reminder that our reality is one of a stone's throw from…

People such as Bill Gates have been talking about the risk of a global pandemic for years. This is a relatively light natural pandemic, a bioweapon would be much worse. Imagine how many FFP3 respirators you can buy for the cost of one aircraft carrier. It's incredible the level of military spending for useless crap and the apparent absence of spending on the real risks to society.

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#128
post #120

This response by the Internet Archive focuses on easily refutable claims, such as that they acquired their books illegally, while sidestepping the one substantive issue: that they had no legal right to replace the controlled digital lending process that they had been following with uncontrolled lending. This is what so many authors and publishers are objecting to; and they are right to point out that this resembles s…

I was curious about your mention of authors and publishers complaining, since I hadn't seen any objections yet. This led me to complaints by The Authors Guild[1] (as detailed in an article by The Guardian[2]) and three other authors mentioned in an NPR article[3]. Since then I've also discovered a statement by the Association of American Publishers[4] linked from the HN submission. Some of the focus is on the revenue…

The actual core of the problem is described here and predates the discussion on the Emergency Library: https://nwu.org/book-division/cdl/faq/

Summary from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_digital_lending

> Opponents of CDL argue that CDL is not like lending, which does not require copying, and dispute the claim that only one copy at a time is available for reading. Opponents say that CDL involves first making an unauthorized digital copy of a printed edition of a work, and then making an additional unauthorized digital copy for each "borrower". Opponents also argue that unencrypted digital copies are distributed for viewing in a Web browser, and that these copies can be retained, viewed, or printed from the browser cache even after the e-book is marked as "returned" and is available for "lending" to other readers.

This is based on the vague notion of "creative work" in copyright.

Before the digital age, there was only a close 1:1 relationship between the ephemeral/conceptual creative work and physical copies of that work. Authors - and more specifically publishers - held exclusive control over the latter since the act of copying and distribution was prohibitively expensive.

The game changer in digital technology is that it democratized creating and distributing copies. Not just that, digital technology has blurred the definition of a "physical carrier" as a creative work can be represented as set of constituent bitstreams on a disk but also as pixels or audio on a screen/speakers. The creative work itself is re-generated/re-constructed through digital devices each time it is consumed.

Copyright still applies, the ephemeral conceptual work as was original intended by the author is still protected. But it's become very difficult to apply that protection to equally ephemeral representations in the digital realm.

The hard problem then is that copyright doesn't make a distinction between "physical copy", "digital copy" and the ephemeral "creative work" as an abstract idea or concept which was originally conceived by the author.

This leaves an huge void for interpretations. And so, both the Internet Archive as well as the Authors Guild can make sound legal arguments.

You'll find the "copyright is broken" cry on both sides of the aisle. But I don't think that rings entirely true either. There are enough provisions for publishers and authors to authorize or take down published copies online. The Internet Archive in particular even openly allows for that through their digital front office. The bigger question remains how the digital era shapes publishing and lending business models.

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#129
post #18

There are lots of children still going to school, and there's no simple way for them to obtain books that previously would have been available for free. It is sort of a reading emergency! Now where I live the library system is awesome, and I found the selection was way better than Barnes & Noble. Libraries purchase a lot of books every year and it's no small amount of money. That being said it's also wasteful for man…

Having a home library has many more functions than just storing books you've once read. It's a signaling device; it's a way to show your character:; it's a way to have a possibility to share materials with others; it's a way to show your children your values; it's a reminder of things you've learned; it's soothing for many to have books around; they can be a useful reference or inspiration; ... Books are not just a t…

I used to think all of that. Then getting rid of my books improved my life more than almost any other act. It took time and a few rounds of culling, but transformed how I looked at possessions and led to reducing much of my other stuff. I wrote it up, hoping it might help someone like I was: https://joshuaspodek.com/less_please.

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#130
post #24

Dear Internet Archive: Not only do I support the measure you have taken and feel that it falls within the bounds of pro-social fair use, but I applaud the measures you have taken that are so important in this extreme time. Furthermore, if any court finds that your action was not appropriate, I will urge my lawmakers to craft a specific exception to copyright law to support the internet archive lending at all times, n…

Why stop here? Let's give everyone free food and housing too. They're even more important. Call it "social fair use."

Remember: authors have to eat and sleep too. If they don't make money from their work, they'll do something else.

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