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Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

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Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#101

Post by axguscbklp »

JadeNB wrote: post #34
axguscbklp wrote: post #26

Given that this is a time of emergency, I think that definitely a good argument can be made for relaxing copyright laws. That said, many commenters on this subject are extending the discussion into a general discussion on the value of copyright, and there I cannot fully agree with the notion that copyright is a bad thing. I pirate stuff too (although I try to limit my piracy) but one difference between me and many ot…

Not to be rude, but so what? If piracy causes harm, do you think it makes any difference to the victims of that harm whether you know that you are causing that harm, or are consoling yourself with ideological contrivances?

>do you think it makes any difference to the victims of that harm whether you know that you are causing that harm, or are consoling yourself with ideological contrivances

No, it makes no difference at all as far as I can tell, except in the probably irrelevant sense that my dislike of justifying my piracy might have some small influence upon others.

I made my initial comment mainly because I wished to explore the question of how much anti-copyright rhetoric is actually based on selfish ulterior motives rather than on principled ideology.

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#103

Post by twomoretime »

supernova87a wrote: post #82

I think the virus situation is exposing the difference in what rules or behavior people / companies think society will put up with, and what people will really put up with / want when push comes to shove. (And, by the way, in so many things, not just this story.)

The world has been a cooking timebomb and COVID is a fuse. We're about to see layers of bullshit blown away, and believe me, our society is caked in it - in advertising, in politics, in entertainment, in industry. Nothing feels genuine anymore. Race to the bottom dollar with MBA style, soul sucking optimization throughout.

A cleansing fire, perhaps; a deserved reminder that our reality is one of a stone's throw from death. A necessary lesson for an angry but complacent society that has grown fat and weak with comfort and convenience.

I struggle to otherwise explain the near total global failure to deal with a pandemic which was evident as early as January.

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#104

Post by axguscbklp »

kiba wrote: post #29
axguscbklp wrote: post #26

Given that this is a time of emergency, I think that definitely a good argument can be made for relaxing copyright laws. That said, many commenters on this subject are extending the discussion into a general discussion on the value of copyright, and there I cannot fully agree with the notion that copyright is a bad thing. I pirate stuff too (although I try to limit my piracy) but one difference between me and many ot…

I pirate stuff too (although I try to limit my piracy) but one difference between me and many other pirates is that I know that I am sometimes hurting people when I pirate. Question: Is losing a sale when it would otherwise be necessarily a moral harm?

Probably not necessarily, since content creators who are already rich don't really see their lives much affected by piracy. But content creators who are not rich need to sell product in order to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads, so in that case yes, as far as I can tell, there is a moral harm.

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#105

Post by robin_reala »

eatonphil wrote: post #63

I'm unfamiliar with their library contents and this thread didn't go into a lot of detail. Their sci-fi section (sorted by most "viewed") includes many classics by authors such as Asimov, Phillip K. Dick, Bradbury, Vonnegut, etc. Looks like a good offering.

Interestingly for Philip K. Dick, a lot of his stuff is in the official public domain already, due to a missed copyright renewal: https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/philip-k-dick/short-fictio...

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#106

Post by pawelk »

leephillips wrote: post #100

This response by the Internet Archive focuses on easily refutable claims, such as that they acquired their books illegally, while sidestepping the one substantive issue: that they had no legal right to replace the controlled digital lending process that they had been following with uncontrolled lending. This is what so many authors and publishers are objecting to; and they are right to point out that this resembles s…

Ideally they'd extend the limits of simultaneously lended copies by how many were there in libraries that are now closed, acting as a proxy to the physical copies that are now locked down. But this would take a long time to implement, they'd have to set up a system that gives each library the opportunity to submit their inventory and allow IA to act on the library behalf by lending their books.

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#107

Post by FillardMillmore »

twomoretime wrote: post #103
supernova87a wrote: post #82

I think the virus situation is exposing the difference in what rules or behavior people / companies think society will put up with, and what people will really put up with / want when push comes to shove. (And, by the way, in so many things, not just this story.)

The world has been a cooking timebomb and COVID is a fuse. We're about to see layers of bullshit blown away, and believe me, our society is caked in it - in advertising, in politics, in entertainment, in industry. Nothing feels genuine anymore. Race to the bottom dollar with MBA style, soul sucking optimization throughout. A cleansing fire, perhaps; a deserved reminder that our reality is one of a stone's throw from…

Are societies in Africa and the Middle East that are dealing with this virus 'fat and weak with comfort and convenience'? Do poor and oppressed people in China hit with this virus deserve this reminder that our reality and existence is fragile?

Who says there's been a 'near total global failure to deal' with this pandemic? We're dealing with it right now, and countries around the world are taking drastic steps and decisive action. Perhaps we weren't as prepared as we should've been and I think that case can readily be made, but to think that because you can't explain our lack of preparation, it must mean that this virus and the resulting fallout were 'deserved' or 'necessary' seems pretty cold-hearted in light of all the people affected by this who already were struggling from paycheck to paycheck, just trying to get by and possibly improve their standing in life.

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#108

Post by mrslave »

twomoretime wrote: post #103
supernova87a wrote: post #82

I think the virus situation is exposing the difference in what rules or behavior people / companies think society will put up with, and what people will really put up with / want when push comes to shove. (And, by the way, in so many things, not just this story.)

The world has been a cooking timebomb and COVID is a fuse. We're about to see layers of bullshit blown away, and believe me, our society is caked in it - in advertising, in politics, in entertainment, in industry. Nothing feels genuine anymore. Race to the bottom dollar with MBA style, soul sucking optimization throughout. A cleansing fire, perhaps; a deserved reminder that our reality is one of a stone's throw from…

You may be right but nobody cares. People by and large want simple stories, and the story will be "Coronavirus caused all the problems."

The same people will be in charge on the other side. They will admit no responsibility for making our societies this fragile in the first place and blame all ills on unforeseen externalities. Rinse and repeat.

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#109

Post by anigbrowl »

geofft wrote: post #53
bsanr2 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They offer an opt-out process that suspends lending completely. If we're going to talk about the alleged illegality of a controlled process for sharing data, I'd like to start with ad-tracking, since that clearly affects a larger group of people and because its legality seems to rest on a similar premise (at least, to this layman).

> They offer an opt-out process that suspends lending completely. That's not how copyright works in the US. Maybe it should be, but it's not. The owner of a copyright gets to say how it's used, they don't merely have a right to refuse to uses if they're aware of them. There are certain exceptions, such as compulsory licensing (e.g., in the US you can get a license to cover a song at a fixed-by-law rate) and fair use,…

Law exists to serve people, not the other way round. And I am a big proponent of authors' and creators' rights to get paid. There are times when it is appropriate to break the law.

Re: Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library

#110

Post by toyg »

leephillips wrote: post #100

This response by the Internet Archive focuses on easily refutable claims, such as that they acquired their books illegally, while sidestepping the one substantive issue: that they had no legal right to replace the controlled digital lending process that they had been following with uncontrolled lending. This is what so many authors and publishers are objecting to; and they are right to point out that this resembles s…

It’s not “uncontrolled” - borrowing only lasts two weeks. They say so in the post.
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