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Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

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Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#271

This may be hard for those of us in tech to comprehend; not everyone can function without having a boss to keep them 100% accountable. In 2004, I worked for a startup and we had beer in the fridge. We'd have an occasional afternoon where we would grab them. No big deal. Most startups I worked at embraced a similar attitude. Finally I worked for a company that went a step further and had beer on tap, but had rules, no…

I've read this comment like 10 times in the last hour. I get what you're saying, but it misses the point, I think. >entry-level roles. >used to flex hours, and the ability to remotely (including WFH), that we forget that for many others, it's novel. That's the point of management and leadership. You take new people and make sure they have what they need to get the job done. For most people, that 'what they need' is a…

> If you don't say it out loud, and assume people will pick it up via osmosis, you're a bad leader.

To some extent, I agree, though it largely depends on the role. Setting expectations clearly is important as a leader, as is providing clear, timely feedback when expectations aren't met.

In college, it's a wake up call to students, because professors do not provide followup the way grade school teachers do. You are given your work and expected to turn it in.

For engineers, it's largely as you said--you're an adult. Act like an adult. If you're getting hammered on company time, we'll have a discussion about it, and why it's happening.

On the flip-side, I had a house-hold employee who dressed completely inappropriately for her job. I wrote her up about it and sent her information (guidelines) around appropriate dress code for her role.

> How is remote different than in-person?

Physical presence can correlate with productivity. That may be the sole signal that triggers a boss to look at actual productivity metrics.

There are other approximations, such as responsiveness to communications (email, slack etc) as well.

But I posit the leaders who are spying on employees have trained their intuition to be based on physical presence. Without that, they're scared.

I follow the model that the team owns their deliverables, and delivery dates, with input from me. I advocate shorter deliverables or checkpoints to uncover issues with estimates sooner, but ultimately leave it up to the team to execute. If something isn't delivered on time, I as a leader address the underlying causes.

My philosophy as a boss is "You have a lot of flexibility. Just get your work done when you say you will." And not everyone has the maturity to work in such an environment.

I hope that explains my feelings more clearly.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#272
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised cubicles get so much hate. I loved mine at my first job. Oodles of desk space. Locking drawers and cabinets. There was a chair in the corner so a guest could sit. Made it easy to have 2 meetings without disturbing people. less aesthetically pleasing in office photographs, but overall a much better work environment than any open plan I've experienced.

>I'm surprised cubicles get so much hate. cubicles were a step down from individual offices, and was the manifestation of commoditization of the software engineering. The transition from cubicles to open offices was the part of that process going even further. Basically blue collar workers of 196x on a large factory floor. One would think that we've reached the peak of bad offices ... Well, i think some form of verti…

> Well, i think some form of vertically stacked option is coming in the mid-term.

I'm fine with this. I'm surprised that airline seat manufacturers don't make versions for office use -- business class seats are much nicer than any open plan desk I've ever sat at. You are fully surrounded on all sides, your chair can turn into a bed, and inside an office you can probably stack them. Getting a couple of 30" monitors in there that are infinitely adjustable would be a challenge, and cleaning it sounds like a pain in the ass... but I'm sure these issues could be resolved if there is money in doing it.

I think people like open-plan offices because they're easy. You move into the space, have IKEA deliver a bunch of tables, and you're set up. It's cheap and it's easy.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#273
post #193

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Disagree. There are far more reasons for people to not be productive in the office than at home. Making excuses to get coffee, the need to go out for lunch, the drive-bys and time lost walking to/from meetings, moving up and down floors... if the main motivator in your work is the fact that people can swing by and look over your shoulder, then yeah, you're better in an office. At home I wake up and log on at 8am. In…

I think you are greatly ignoring employees with children. It is hard for a 4 year old to understand that when mom & dad are home that it is not a work day. They just want to spend time with mom & dad. In addition, the only thing they know of computers is playing games, so it is hard to see mom & dad on a computer doing "work". Think of the most annoying co-worker you've dealt with constantly coming up to you and aski…

> Because I have a kid...

> I think you are greatly ignoring employees with children.

I think you missed something.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because he couldn't walk up behind me to see me working, he secretly installed a program on my computer that took a screenshot every 30 seconds > The irony was that I was probably the most productive person in that office (in my humble opinion). The easiest and the most efficient way to ruin my productivity is to look at my screen. I can't work (nor can I pee - a funny coincidence, that's called "paruresis") when s…

Off topic, but related to this... I had, what I felt, was the best seat in the office at my previous job. We had an open office with short cubicles and standing desks, and the cubicles were arranged so that two people shared a small area with two desks/cabinets/etc. For a while, it was wonderful. My "cube-mate" worked from home 4 days a week and only came in for meetings, and we had a window on one side and an empty…

You know, I've always wondered why there are so many stories about these middle management types who seem to pay so close attention to things that are _not_ employee productivity. I guess on first glance, it may appear that "looking busy" corrates to "getting stuff done", but why not cut out the middle man and pay attention to what the employee actually does?

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's standard practice if you agree to it in your employment contract.

Except that no contract can override the law, at last not where I live.

But it's not illegal to watch a video of someone with their consent. Whether an employment contract counts as consent or not is an exercise that I'll leave to the reader, but it's definitely a gray area.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#276
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but would it always hold up in court? You can give your soul away by installing a piece of software without reading the agreement but it wouldn't hold water, of course. Curious how this would work with federal or state level wiretap laws.

Holding up in court is one facet. Needing to litigate in and of itself is typically a deterrent, especially for complex issues where there's a time/cost deterrent for pursuing combined with perception of success in court. There's a lot you can get away with by making a process complex, arduous, and potentially expensive. Faced with that option vs letting some employer take photos of you in your pajamas without shavin…

This is a really well-worded comment, thanks!

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#277
I wonder if the companies who make these products use their own product on their employees? I can't imagine them not (hard to sell a product you don't even use), but on the otherhand, it would be especially insulting as an employee to be developing the very tool that is being used to spy on you.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#278
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cubicles got so much hate because they were worse than private offices that came before them. Now open floor plans are getting hate because they’re worse than cubicles so rose-colored glasses makes cubicles the nostalgic dream.

I don't think there was ever a time where every office worker had their own office. Only the big boss got their own office and everyone else had desks in a large room. The open floor plan we have now is pretty typical of what they used to look like. Here's a good example: https://www.officemuseum.com/1935_Auditor_of_Overcharge_Clai... More pictures: https://www.officemuseum.com/photo_gallery_1930s_1940s.htm

Office pictures from the Great Depression are not very convincing ;-)

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#279
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its called hotdesking and there are definitely some startups selling solutions to organize this

Good lord, does there have to be a startup for everything? Enter office. See empty desk. Sit at desk. Work. Done.

The solutions are more along letting you check in/check out so others can find where you are in a given day.
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