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For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

theguardian.com

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Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#151

Post by champagneben »

nabnob wrote: post #102
oneida wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s probably because your perception is that it is a derailment.

It's a derailment because the people bringing this up aren't actually organizing towards helping homeless men. These two issues, women's shelters and men's shelters, aren't actually in contradiction with each other but the commenter I was responding to is treating it that way. The reason women's shelters exist is because activists in the 60's and 70's decided to build them and gain support, and eventually fought for…

> The reason women's shelters exist is because activists in the 60's and 70's decided to build them and gain support, and eventually fought for funding. What is stopping any of you from actually building a movement to help homeless men, instead of complaining about the activists who try to help women in need of housing?

Do you feel this way about institutions built for and by men, that women have demanded (rightfully so) access to, instead of building their own from the ground up?

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#152

Post by 0x8BADF00D »

cies wrote: post #93
zepto wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically, people who stay in abusive relationships were already stuck. The problem wasn’t cause by the lockdown. Only compounded. Changing the presentation of a document won’t change this. What would, is a society that doesn’t tolerate the problem, and provides material support for the abused. We are a long way from that.

Someone who cannot leave a relationship in which abuse did not just take place once, but repeated (hence "abusive"); when what should society do that it should not already be doing to everyone? * ensure you have food and shelter * ensure reasonably safe * ensure that children are admitted to some school * ensure you dont sink into deep poverty When a society cannot help on these points, what use is requesting these f…

Free stuff for everyone enables a level of governmental abuse that makes domestic violence seem tame in comparison. The sad state of affairs is many abused people are gaslighted and brainwashed so they stay with the abuser. These forms of coercive mental conditioning can last a lifetime.

It happened to a close friend of mine’s sister. She ended up joining a bizarre religious cult where the leader would find young people and brainwash them into staying with the cult. I attended one of these gatherings and they attempted to recruit me as well. They’d send multiple young women over wearing very revealing clothing, extolling how great the cult was, how great the leader was, etc. But these types of mind control schemes don’t work me.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#153

Post by pvaldes »

kevintb wrote: post #126
pvaldes wrote: post #85

I think that the situation can have more positive than negative effects in this sense. A major problem with abused people is that they assume that their current life is more predictable (comforting) than the other options (being jobless, poor and alone and having a low self-estimate), so they relativize and hide the situation because they fear more the uncertainty. Maybe they will solve the problem temporarily trying…

Oh god, you clearly don’t have much knowledge of abusive partners, because you couldn’t be more wrong.

Maybe we could discuss the ideas instead to discuss my knowledge and just say I am wrong. We both could learn something.

Play the neiborghs a role denouncing abusive situations? I think that yes, in my experience they sometimes do it. Therefore more people at home could be traslated easily to more videos, more audios, and more denounces. Am I wrong?

Do the victims choose to ignore that they are being abused? IMHO Yes, they do, for years until the situation can't be hiddden anymore or something happens and the victim suddenly awake.

If the victim does not choose to change and break with their former life, there is not a lot of things that other people can do. In my experience victims lie, systematically, constantly, about the real situation and they actively try to protect their abuser.

Your experience can be different, of course.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#154

Post by mackrevinack »

nabnob wrote: post #102
oneida wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s probably because your perception is that it is a derailment.

It's a derailment because the people bringing this up aren't actually organizing towards helping homeless men. These two issues, women's shelters and men's shelters, aren't actually in contradiction with each other but the commenter I was responding to is treating it that way. The reason women's shelters exist is because activists in the 60's and 70's decided to build them and gain support, and eventually fought for…

i dont know much about this topic but it doesn't sound as easy as you make it out to be

not that setting up any shelter type would be easy of course but i vaguely remember Erin Pizzey (who set up the first women's shelter in the UK) saying in an interview that she tried at one point to get funding to set up a men's shelter but she couldn't get a single penny.

what she was taking about sounded like it was a long while ago but I seem to remember a guy in canada recently committing suicide because he had tried for years to get funding from the government for his mens shelter but same deal.

whether men have the same trouble setting up shelters in other countries I don't know

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#155

Post by NateEag »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #70
mymythisisthis wrote: post #60

If you suspect one of your neighbors is being abused, call the police and report it. Don't wait, don't hesitate. Some people call the police because McDonald's screwed up their order. Call the police.

>If you suspect one of your neighbors is being abused, call the police and report it. Don't wait, don't hesitate. Talk to your neighbors before you call the cops on them!!!! If you see someone get physically abused then sure, you're witnessing a crime in progress, call the cops. If you're not then don't. It's wildly inappropriate to call the cops on a hunch. If you think a neighbor is being abused but are not sure th…

> If you think a neighbor is being abused but are not sure then just be their friend and communicate with them (you're neighbors, it's reasonable for you to have each other's phone numbers and email addresses) until you can discern whether or not you are correct.

This "wait and see" approach gets people killed.

Personally, I'd far rather be investigated for something I didn't do than have someone else die because a third party didn't act on their suspicions.

Hunches can be wrong, but they come from somewhere, and they're often right.

Furthermore, abusers are good at getting their victims to never tell anyone about what happens, and often at hiding or destroying evidence, too.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#156

Post by xabotage »

derefr wrote: post #134
dragonwriter wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An accusation of domestic abuse would be taken far more seriously than an accusation of "being outside without a reason", I would think. Especially if you're a police officer, trained to respond to domestic violence calls, but never really trained about the seriousness of epidemic management. Police not taking it seriously (in part, because it's viewed as wasted time because the accuser will so often recant even wh…

There is a difference between taking seriously in the sense of "I am reporting a crime, please actually investigate it" (which, yes, often doesn't cause a crime to be investigated) and "I am afraid for my well-being and/or am being held hostage in my own home; please send a police escort to rescue me from my house; and then, optionally, please take me into protective custody, so that I may be safe for a few days whil…

> "I am afraid for my well-being and/or am being held hostage in my own home; please send a police escort to rescue me from my house; and then, optionally, please take me into protective custody, so that I may be safe for a few days while filing a motion of a restraining order."

These magic words likely will elicit the correct response from law enforcement. But being able to formulate this phrase implies awareness on the part of the victim that they are being abused, that something can be done about it, and that they have the courage to do what it takes to escape. The truth is that many victims are manipulated into believing there's no way out. Even the ones who do pull the trigger experience a lot of pain upfront that only becomes worth it later - they are still emotionally attached to their abusers.

We should absolutely educate people as to the usefulness of police in abusive scenarios (an abuser would have the victim think they are helpless), but getting victims to recognize and say the magic words is more than half the battle.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#157

Post by carapace »

jasondclinton wrote: post #145
carapace wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been poor most of my life. I don't need to read a book to know that it sucks. I would say that wealth enhances life, not that poverty necessarily diminishes it. The OP's point stands: most people who choose to stay with their abuser are not starving and sleep-deprived to the point of being unable to even have a choice, eh? There's something else going on. (Are there no wealthy people who fail to leave abusers?)…

Thanks for sharing your perspective. As it happens, I also grew up poor. I found the book extremely interesting so I wouldn't discount it just because you had that experience.

Cheers! It looks pretty interesting.

Just to be really clear, I'm not trying to say that poverty makes things harder, or course it does. Really all I want to point out is that even in the worst circumstances we still have the power to choose how we respond or react to them. But again, it's possible that circumstances are so bad that it becomes really difficult to make good decisions. I'm not trying to blame people for their circumstances, or bad fortune, or even their bad decisions (we all make mistakes.) I'm not really trying to blame anyone for anything. I believe that people are generally doing the best they can with what they've got.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#158

Post by zzzcpan »

dang wrote: post #148
jasondclinton wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most HN comment I've seen in a week. You tried not to blame the victim and acknowledge poverty is the trap but then came off as doing that in the context of personal responsibility shaming. Poverty or the fear of poverty is the real decision maker here; the math is as unforgiving as orbital mechanics. And please don't reply, "But there are programs!" Governments and NGOs convince voters and donors that th…

" Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You don't seem to realize this, but this is very subjective and not something that can actually be followed and meet whatever judgement you had in mind when picking on that comment.

You've done it to me too a couple of times and I decided to just ignore it since I cannot possibly satisfy your subjective judgement, but you are penalizing comments now.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#160

Post by downerending »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #37

In addition, sadly there are nearly 0 shelters for men. https://nypost.com/2017/10/29/these-shelters-help-male-victi...

For better or worse, it's hard to imagine there'd be much demand (even if there's arguably need). I've been in a situation sort of like this, and reaching out to a shelter would have been the last thought on my mind.

Rather, we're pretty much taught and shamed into "sucking it up", both by women and men. That's usually what happens, and those who no longer can generally just end up as statistics.

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