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Macy’s to Furlough 100k Employees

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Re: Macy’s to Furlough 100k Employees

#41

Post by kempbellt »

synaesthesisx wrote: post #24
Ididntdothis wrote: post #19

At least they can stay on their health insurance. It’s always mind boggling that in the US you will not just lose your job when you get laid off but also your health insurance. For a lot of people this is life threatening.

Man, it sure would be great if we could decouple health insurance from employment like other reasonable countries. It would be a shame to literally have your existence threatened by absurd factors well outside of your control (like your employer unable to meet payroll due to a global pandemic).

Then let's do it

Re: Macy’s to Furlough 100k Employees

#42

Post by danans »

bilbo0s wrote: post #21
Ididntdothis wrote: post #19

At least they can stay on their health insurance. It’s always mind boggling that in the US you will not just lose your job when you get laid off but also your health insurance. For a lot of people this is life threatening.

Being able to keep the health insurance is a life saver. And yes, we really need to rethink this whole, "employer bound health insurance"-thing. Maybe it made sense in the world of easy access to middle class jobs that was the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's, etc. But today things are significantly different and we haven't adapted to reflect that reality.

> And yes, we really need to rethink this whole, "employer bound health insurance"-thing.

This may end up being the most important silver lining of the COVID19 situation.

> Maybe it made sense in the world of easy access to middle class jobs that was the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's, etc.

It made sense for those who could get those jobs, but US society of the 1950s-1970s was pretty selective as to to whom it availed such jobs and attached health benefits.

Re: Macy’s to Furlough 100k Employees

#43

Post by 1123581321 »

ksec wrote: post #38
1123581321 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every state provides UC for furlough. My understanding is that the majority of employees are in states that do, though.

Thanks. For those of us living outside the State, it increasingly looks more like ( to us ) US is like EU where every member state is a country of its own.

It may seem that way for a few items that keep appearing in the news, but the general trend over the last 200 years has been to make state laws more uniform and to increase regulation at the federal level. For example, for normal job loss, state benefits are fairly uniform, and when we have recessions, we get federal legislation passed to uniformly extend state unemployment benefits with federal money. Not too long ago, that would have been unthinkable.

Re: Macy’s to Furlough 100k Employees

#44

Post by jjeaff »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #7
twblalock wrote: post #6

I hope the furloughed workers will be able to get unemployment benefits or something similar. Otherwise being furloughed is the worst of both worlds: employed, but unpaid. On the other hand, being furloughed rather than laid off will mean the workers keep their health insurance.

Having your hours or pay cut significantly qualifies for unemployment.

In some states, not all. Although I think the cares act may provide its additional unemployment money in either case.

Re: Macy’s to Furlough 100k Employees

#45

Post by filmgirlcw »

pound wrote: post #40
ragona wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha "discounted." Have you ever looked at the prices for COBRA? Cool, you just lost your job, here's a $1500/mo option.

it's still technically discounted as those are group rates. Without it the same plan would cost even more for individuals.

Sure — but the point is that it isn’t a viable discount for most people who are laid off — regardless of your income level. A decade ago, when I went off my parents insurance (and before the startup I worked at offered insurance), COBRA was $1200 a month — it was more than my rent at the time. But my medication costs were $1500 or $1600 a month (primarily for an ADHD drug that was still under patent and no generic was available), so I paid it anyway. That was in part because my parents had really good insurance — and you’re paying to extend the same plan, you’re not able to negotiate for a different plan. When I last switched employers a few years ago, the COBRA amount was similarly high (I didn’t use it because my new employer had insurance but I saw the COBRA forms). Unemployment wouldn’t cover rent for many people — let alone COBRA.

Re: Macy’s to Furlough 100k Employees

#46

Post by unlinked_dll »

twblalock wrote: post #13
code4tee wrote: post #10

Sadly this whole current mess may be an insurmountable hurdle for an industry that was already struggling. This is all going to force some changes for what the future of retail looks like. Hopefully in the long run we can all find a place for in person retail. I buy a lot online but still like going to stores sometimes too. We will likely see the industry re-invent instead a bit with smaller footprints and a focus on…

When we look back on this in a few years I think we will see the virus shutdowns accelerated some trends that were already slowly happening: - The demise of many traditional retail businesses - The concentration of surviving retail businesses into big box stores and higher-end retailers (like the stores at Westfield malls) - Increased usage of online shopping and gig delivery services - Even more growth for Amazon, W…

> The concentration of surviving retail businesses into big box stores and higher-end retailer

$/ft^2 is the metric to look for. That correlates with "high end" retail (high dollar items that take up less floor/warehouse space).

I think we could see a boon of brick and mortars that are smaller and more optimized. Just an anecdote, I know of a local music shop that cut its floorspace in half about 5 years ago and started offering staple items as a subscription service (e.g. reeds, guitar strings, bow rosin, whatever), while the bigger items had their shelf space rented out to vendors rather than taking commission on sales. Another anecdote, StitchFix and Bonobos have both provided solutions to the problem of selling clothes without stocking various sizes at a retail location.

There's a lot of opportunity to innovate retail in my opinion. The issue has always been the sales model, and I think that focusing on "big box" stores is wrong - they're just more equipped to weather the storm. Department stores died a decade ago, it just took this long for their bodies to hit the ground. Same for big box retail.

Re: Macy’s to Furlough 100k Employees

#47

Post by cstejerean »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #37
ryaan_anthony wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you are fired or quit. If you are laid off, you have the option to continue your insurance at your employers discounted rate. The program is called COBRA if you want to look into it.

COBRA is so intractably expensive that the only responsible thing to do is assume COBRA doesn’t exist and base policies and assistance around that reality. Any analysis / estimate / policy that starts from any assumption of the existence or usage of COBRA is therefore so unrealistic and inaccurate as to be completely ignored.

That's because insurance is expensive. The price you pay for COBRA is identical to how much that policy cost while employed, except that while employed the employer is paying a large share of the cost, and while on COBRA you pay the full cost yourself. Spending some time on COBRA is a good way to appreciate the high cost of insurance.

I spent 12 months on COBRA when I started my startup, and while I didn't enjoy paying close to $2,000 per month for insurance I couldn't buy a comparable plan on the open market for my family for less.

Re: Macy’s to Furlough 100k Employees

#48

Post by filmgirlcw »

Klathmon wrote: post #34
ryaan_anthony wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you are fired or quit. If you are laid off, you have the option to continue your insurance at your employers discounted rate. The program is called COBRA if you want to look into it.

COBRA is temporary (for 18-36 months depending on the situation), and you need to not only pay what you have been paying, but you also need to pay the "employer's share". And it must be identical to the plan you left, so you can't reduce coverage or change anything at all about the plan or you'll lose eligibility. That means people who quit or are laid off will end up having to pay more for their healthcare at a time…

Yup — almost made this comment in another thread. There are tons of gotchas with COBRA. Sure, if you can afford it, it can be better than the alternative (especially if you have expensive medications or a pre-existing condition that requires lots of ongoing treatment), but I’ve had plenty of friends who have at various stages had to face questions about health insurance or rent — and as you say, if you’re late at all with COBRA, you lose it.

The fact that the United States doesn’t have universal, affordable healthcare is a travesty and the fact that our system has persisted for this long is utterly insane.

Re: Macy’s to Furlough 100k Employees

#49

Post by filmgirlcw »

danans wrote: post #42
bilbo0s wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to keep the health insurance is a life saver. And yes, we really need to rethink this whole, "employer bound health insurance"-thing. Maybe it made sense in the world of easy access to middle class jobs that was the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's, etc. But today things are significantly different and we haven't adapted to reflect that reality.

> And yes, we really need to rethink this whole, "employer bound health insurance"-thing. This may end up being the most important silver lining of the COVID19 situation. > Maybe it made sense in the world of easy access to middle class jobs that was the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's, etc. It made sense for those who could get those jobs, but US society of the 1950s-1970s was pretty selective as to to whom it availed su…

Yes. Although I will note that labor unions were also more powerful then, which allowed a broader class of people to have jobs that offered benefits.

I don’t disagree that the system was still selective as to who had access, but the Reagan-era attack on organized labor and workers rights had sweeping, sweeping impact that continues today.

The problem is that many boomers (sorry mom and dad), who had more entry-level or even middle-class jobs in the 70s and then went on to big corporate jobs in the 80s, either are unaware of this shift or are unwilling to acknowledge it happened. People say, “well when I was your age my health insurance was free or super cheap” — as if that is applicable 40+ years later. It’s similar to my uncle not understanding why someone like me, who makes well into six figures a year, has no aspirations of home ownership, not understanding that the only cities I’m willing to live don’t have housing equivalent to my rent for under $1m. He just thinks, “I bought a house at your age” — not realizing his house was $80k and even with inflation, wouldn’t be possible now. Or like how I had to explain to my mother that no, despite working for the second-most valuable company in the world (technically it has the highest market cap today), I do not have a pension. I laughed when she asked.

Re: Macy’s to Furlough 100k Employees

#50

Post by digitaltrees »

pmiller2 wrote: post #22
bilbo0s wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to keep the health insurance is a life saver. And yes, we really need to rethink this whole, "employer bound health insurance"-thing. Maybe it made sense in the world of easy access to middle class jobs that was the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's, etc. But today things are significantly different and we haven't adapted to reflect that reality.

More like it made sense in the early 1940's when there were wage and price controls due to WW2, and it just kinda stuck.

This is an important historical fact that many people don’t know.
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