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Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

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Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#121

Post by simias »

gambiting wrote: post #67
lodovic wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if the employee is informed upfront. Otherwise it's a privacy issue.

Let's assume they were informed upfront - there's nothing illegal about it then, is there?

It needs to be proportionate and justified. Putting an employee under an unreasonable amount of monitoring for no discernible reason could be a problem. Of course weather taking screenshots of one's monitor every 30s is or isn't reasonable would be left to the interpretation of the court.

See the link I have posted in a sibling comment: https://gdpr.report/news/2017/11/17/5383/

>The ECtHR held that the employer had breached B’s right to privacy because they didn’t inform him of the monitoring in advance and nor did they tell him that they may access the content of his communications. The previous courts had also failed to determine the reasons justifying the monitoring and whether these were proportionate to the purpose or whether the employer could have used less intrusive measures to achieve the same result.

If I read this correctly even if the person had been informed of the monitoring the evidence wouldn't have been receivable because the monitoring wasn't deemed "proportionate".

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#122

Post by Silhouette »

gambiting wrote: post #98
Silhouette wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't necessarily true either. IIRC, there was a case not so long ago of a school that was using quite aggressive surveillance measures, and obtained some degree of prior consent. It was still penalised under the GDPR, because all processing of personal data must be justified. Even consent is not carte blanche to do whatever you want, and that's probably a good thing for the same reason that inalienable consumer…

Right, but both of these examples are about using personal data(facial recognition data and then fingerprints) for purposes where it's not needed. Again, I would see the issue if the employeer was taking pictures with the webcam every 30 seconds - that is definitely a privacy problem because you neither expect your employeer to be photographing you every 30 seconds, nor is it necessary for your job. But pictures of t…

You keep saying there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, but there is no basis in law for that position, at least not in the EU or UK.

I've edited my earlier comments to add some sources, including a reference to the official guidance from the UK's national data protection authority that directly states that just because someone is at work it does not mean they have no expectation of privacy. You can also find lots of public commentary from employment lawyers on the Web where they have interpreted the GDPR similarly, similar statements from other national regulators, etc. Some of these highlight tricky situations like the need to respect personal email as well.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#123

Post by samstave »

throwaway286 wrote: post #117
spamizbad wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised cubicles get so much hate. I loved mine at my first job. Oodles of desk space. Locking drawers and cabinets. There was a chair in the corner so a guest could sit. Made it easy to have 2 meetings without disturbing people. less aesthetically pleasing in office photographs, but overall a much better work environment than any open plan I've experienced.

In the small sample size of my jobs, cubicles are getting much shorter. In my pre 2010 job, the walls of the cube I had were quite tall and gave reasonable privacy. In my 2016 job, they were quite short for "enhanced collaboration". I didn't really feel "safe" in my short cube, for lack of a better word.

the feeling "safe" is a good way to put it, actually.

If you feel "safe" in that manner, it increases your focus, and thus productivity.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#124

Post by closeparen »

notJim wrote: post #112
closeparen wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

University libraries are silent. Focus is the first-class activity; groups that want to work together must book a conference room or go to a dedicated collaboration floor. You might go with your friends for company, but you’re only going to speak on e.g. trips down from the workspace to the attached coffee shop. A “library rules” open office would be just fine. That’s not what happens, though. The point of an open of…

> University libraries are silent. This is not universally true. I've done a lot of working in university libraries recently, and many of them have switched to allowing collaboration in the main spaces. > A “library rules” open office would be just fine. This still wouldn't work for me personally. I listen to music pretty much all the time while working, and get really sick of wearing headphones all the time. The onl…

Well that’s horrifying. I quite liked mine. Although only one two floors were officially collaboration, there was an informal agreement that higher floors were more strictly silent. And then there were single desks scattered throughout the stacks. You had a lot of control over the noise level based on where you choose to sit. Never needed headphones there.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#125

Post by wayoutthere »

moosey wrote: post #94
wayoutthere wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single person with no roommates, I can confirm that my mental health is slipping and it's really hard to maintain a positive attitude at work. Productivity will slip and employers just need to adjust their expectations.

I'm married with two children and I can assure you that not only has my mental state slipped because of the stresses of home life, but I also lost an enormous amount of social activity that I intentionally maintained in order to keep my brain and health at optimal levels. I am OK, but my productivity is toast.

Not trying to one-up you here as having a family brings different forms of stress I can't speak to, but it's really hard to go for a week without interacting with another human being. Social connection is core to who we are as humans; cutting that off is like removing a limb.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#126

Post by w-m »

gambiting wrote: post #51
numlock86 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is illegal pretty much at least everywhere within the EU.

I live in the EU and I cannot think of a single law where the employeer cannot take screenshots of the machines they own. I'll be happily proven wrong though.

Here's a FAQ for the situation in Germany: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...

Can my boss monitor my work computer?

Permanent and comprehensive PC monitoring at the workplace based on a general suspicion is not permitted. The employer may only monitor the employee on the PC if there is sufficient concrete suspicion of improper use of the work computer.

What applies to private use of the work computer?

If private use of the work computer is expressly permitted to the employee, PC monitoring at the workplace is fundamentally excluded.

What if the boss monitors my PC even though he is not entitled to it?

If the employer does not adhere to the requirements for PC surveillance, he is punishable and in the worst case must be prepared for imprisonment.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#127

Post by bredren »

Upwork has largely required contractors to install and run their spy software in order to earn money through their system.

Thankfully MacOS Sierra put the kibosh on the capture ability without special permissions. I denied that request and the client never brought it up.

I do get why these tools are needed, however I find the use of them counterproductive and creates an adversarial posture between clients and contractors.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#128

Post by sneak »

state_less wrote: post #113
sneak wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They shouldn't be scraping personal information off screencaps I agree, but so should the employee not be accessing any personal information on company screens.

Employees do access personal information on company screens. If I check my healthcare plan or retirement plan, use the show password feature, look for another job outside my managers group, etc... This is to say nothing of a normal employer who doesn't mind breaks if you're getting work done. I'd sooner try my luck living in the forest with the other animals than work under such surveillance. I feel sorry for those w…

> Employees do access personal information on company screens.

I think that this was more of an issue back when every person on staff didn't have their own personal wireless touchscreen computer on them at all times. Now it's just a training issue: company hardware for company tasks, personal hardware for personal tasks.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#129

Post by treis »

freehunter wrote: post #34
spamizbad wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised cubicles get so much hate. I loved mine at my first job. Oodles of desk space. Locking drawers and cabinets. There was a chair in the corner so a guest could sit. Made it easy to have 2 meetings without disturbing people. less aesthetically pleasing in office photographs, but overall a much better work environment than any open plan I've experienced.

Cubicles got so much hate because they were worse than private offices that came before them. Now open floor plans are getting hate because they’re worse than cubicles so rose-colored glasses makes cubicles the nostalgic dream.

I don't think there was ever a time where every office worker had their own office. Only the big boss got their own office and everyone else had desks in a large room. The open floor plan we have now is pretty typical of what they used to look like.

Here's a good example:

https://www.officemuseum.com/1935_Auditor_of_Overcharge_Clai...

More pictures:

https://www.officemuseum.com/photo_gallery_1930s_1940s.htm

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