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Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

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Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#111

Post by Retric »

gambiting wrote: post #98
Silhouette wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't necessarily true either. IIRC, there was a case not so long ago of a school that was using quite aggressive surveillance measures, and obtained some degree of prior consent. It was still penalised under the GDPR, because all processing of personal data must be justified. Even consent is not carte blanche to do whatever you want, and that's probably a good thing for the same reason that inalienable consumer…

Right, but both of these examples are about using personal data(facial recognition data and then fingerprints) for purposes where it's not needed. Again, I would see the issue if the employeer was taking pictures with the webcam every 30 seconds - that is definitely a privacy problem because you neither expect your employeer to be photographing you every 30 seconds, nor is it necessary for your job. But pictures of t…

It’s a common practice at most companies to allow some minimal use of company equipment to check private email etc while on break. As soon as that’s allowed a reasonable expectation of privacy exists.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#112

Post by notJim »

closeparen wrote: post #99
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think less than 5% of comments on open-office design, that I have ever seen, were positive. It's basically taboo to say anything positive about open office spaces online. There are many, many legitimately terrible open office workspaces in the world. Suggesting that open offices aren't always bad feels like an attack on those who are miserable in their open office. So it's safer to just never bring it up. In the…

University libraries are silent. Focus is the first-class activity; groups that want to work together must book a conference room or go to a dedicated collaboration floor. You might go with your friends for company, but you’re only going to speak on e.g. trips down from the workspace to the attached coffee shop. A “library rules” open office would be just fine. That’s not what happens, though. The point of an open of…

> University libraries are silent.

This is not universally true. I've done a lot of working in university libraries recently, and many of them have switched to allowing collaboration in the main spaces.

> A “library rules” open office would be just fine.

This still wouldn't work for me personally. I listen to music pretty much all the time while working, and get really sick of wearing headphones all the time. The only option is a private office. (I've gotten this by becoming a remote worker.)

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#113

Post by state_less »

sneak wrote: post #83
state_less wrote: post #49

No, just no. If a boss can't communicate deliverables and verify that these are getting finished, they are too incompetent to manage their domain. They shouldn't be scraping personal information off screencaps, video or audio feeds. This doesn't even seem like it ought to be legal. Workers are there to do a job, not have every personal detail monitored and tracked. Should the show password feature be turned off in UI…

> They shouldn't be scraping personal information off screencaps I agree, but so should the employee not be accessing any personal information on company screens.

Employees do access personal information on company screens. If I check my healthcare plan or retirement plan, use the show password feature, look for another job outside my managers group, etc...

This is to say nothing of a normal employer who doesn't mind breaks if you're getting work done. I'd sooner try my luck living in the forest with the other animals than work under such surveillance. I feel sorry for those who are in a rough spot and feel pressed into this sort of thing.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#114

Post by Frost1x »

geddy wrote: post #72
californical wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's standard practice if you agree to it in your employment contract.

Yes but would it always hold up in court? You can give your soul away by installing a piece of software without reading the agreement but it wouldn't hold water, of course. Curious how this would work with federal or state level wiretap laws.

Holding up in court is one facet. Needing to litigate in and of itself is typically a deterrent, especially for complex issues where there's a time/cost deterrent for pursuing combined with perception of success in court.

There's a lot you can get away with by making a process complex, arduous, and potentially expensive. Faced with that option vs letting some employer take photos of you in your pajamas without shaving while watching your every move, people tend to forego privacy.

When the working population at large starts to follow suit, you've artificially introduced a new trend with artificial social acceptance. Now, it makes a single employee battle concerned about privacy even more daunting and introduces perception of increased risk of failure if legally pursued for the employee thinking of litigating.

The end result is: privacy is eroded. Rinse repeat, for just about anything you want to change. Just make change gradual and give it time. It then takes someone with the financial and time resources to take a hit and pursue as well as eagerness to bother.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#115

Post by ska »

geddy wrote: post #72
californical wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's standard practice if you agree to it in your employment contract.

Yes but would it always hold up in court? You can give your soul away by installing a piece of software without reading the agreement but it wouldn't hold water, of course. Curious how this would work with federal or state level wiretap laws.

Generally at work you have far fewer expectations of privacy, particularly on non-personal devices.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#116

Post by na85 »

lmilcin wrote: post #97
gvjddbnvdrbv wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live what he did is a fairly serious criminal offence.

If this was 90s then as I remember there were not yet standards to deal with this kind of problem. Actually, thinking about this now, I don't even remember they existed this type of software in 90s but I might be mistaken.

l0pht's Back Orifice tool (see: spyware) existed back then.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#117

Post by throwaway286 »

spamizbad wrote: post #12
mc32 wrote: post #5

Two things: Productivity is going to plunge no matter what, with the possible exception of singles who don’t have roommates. There is no way that during an ad hoc and unorganized push to work remote (though necessary in this circumstance) can result in good productivity, monitoring or not. Under the best of circumstances it would take months for a mass of people to adjust and be productive. The apex for open office d…

I'm surprised cubicles get so much hate. I loved mine at my first job. Oodles of desk space. Locking drawers and cabinets. There was a chair in the corner so a guest could sit. Made it easy to have 2 meetings without disturbing people. less aesthetically pleasing in office photographs, but overall a much better work environment than any open plan I've experienced.

In the small sample size of my jobs, cubicles are getting much shorter.

In my pre 2010 job, the walls of the cube I had were quite tall and gave reasonable privacy. In my 2016 job, they were quite short for "enhanced collaboration". I didn't really feel "safe" in my short cube, for lack of a better word.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#119

Post by [deleted] »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #85
lmilcin wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Wrong mental model. Your best bet is to hire/make/keep people interested in being productive. When this is lost there isn't going much you can do to improve productivity. Keeping employee chained to their desks will not magically make things get done. This is so naive. I wonder how humanity landed in the situation where half of all managers don't get the first thing about managing people.

Given the panic-buy, I'm sure you're right about most people thinking this will keep people productive. I've wanted something like this before, though, when I got some bad people on my team who weren't worth what they were getting paid and were sometimes a net negative on the team. We couldn't fire them because everything was at least somewhat subjective and HR and my own boss wanted a solid case. Oh they didn't get…

[deleted]

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#120

Post by samstave »

spamizbad wrote: post #12
mc32 wrote: post #5

Two things: Productivity is going to plunge no matter what, with the possible exception of singles who don’t have roommates. There is no way that during an ad hoc and unorganized push to work remote (though necessary in this circumstance) can result in good productivity, monitoring or not. Under the best of circumstances it would take months for a mass of people to adjust and be productive. The apex for open office d…

I'm surprised cubicles get so much hate. I loved mine at my first job. Oodles of desk space. Locking drawers and cabinets. There was a chair in the corner so a guest could sit. Made it easy to have 2 meetings without disturbing people. less aesthetically pleasing in office photographs, but overall a much better work environment than any open plan I've experienced.

The cubes we had at Intel were fantastic - they were super tall.

The cubes we had at Lockheed were great because they were super big.

I've hated every "open office" layout I have ever had.

I especially liked having a shared office though, sitting back-to-back in a single office, with a door - What I liked about it was that my office mate and I both liked to work with the light off, and just let the natural light from the window through (floor to ceiling window)

When you have some sense of self-privacy, and ability to block people out, your productivity is higher.

The reason why the "open office" concept was pushed, is all about cost.

Its cheaper to give people a slot at the trough, as opposed to building them an office or cube.

(Source: Former Designer and implementation builder at some of the largest open-office-concept companies you have all heard of)

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