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Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

bloomberg.com

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Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#61

Post by ben_w »

readme wrote: post #41
code4tee wrote: post #27

We had a bad manager at my last company who really wanted to do this sort of thing. I said to him “So this is an interesting proposal... if we install this software then I can save on management costs by replacing your position with this spyware?” He never brought it up again and we later just got rid of him completely. Micromanagement and this sort of spying rarely builds high performing teams. Managing worker produ…

micromanagement is life support for low performers

For those doing it or for those receiving it?

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#62

Post by gambiting »

heisenbit wrote: post #55
gambiting wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? What kind of crime would it fall under, and where is that?

GDPR Europe

GDRP what? If the machine is owned by the employer, why would GDPR apply here? Which specific part of GDPR applies here?

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#63

Post by gvjddbnvdrbv »

gambiting wrote: post #43
gvjddbnvdrbv wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norwegian privacy law.

"privacy" is not a crime, you need to be more specific. I would maybe understand if the employer was taking pictures of the employee with a webcam, but they were taking screenshots of the machine owned by the company - how is there any expectation of privacy if you're using company equipment?

I updated comment.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#64

Post by lodovic »

gambiting wrote: post #51
numlock86 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is illegal pretty much at least everywhere within the EU.

I live in the EU and I cannot think of a single law where the employeer cannot take screenshots of the machines they own. I'll be happily proven wrong though.

Only if the employee is informed upfront. Otherwise it's a privacy issue.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#65

Post by lmilcin »

cortesoft wrote: post #57
lmilcin wrote: post #11

Two sides of the story. One: people that are doing this are likely to have already been bad bosses. I don't think this changes anything. Two: I work for a large bank. My director, on a town hall, told us they do understand that not everybody will be able to focus on the job as before and that they expect us to spend less time actually working and be unavailable more often. Then he URGED us to actually do so. To take…

Yeah, I think bosses who freak out about people not being productive while working from home underestimate how much people can avoid being productive while physically at work.

Exactly. Wrong mental model. Your best bet is to hire/make/keep people interested in being productive. When this is lost there isn't going much you can do to improve productivity. Keeping employee chained to their desks will not magically make things get done. This is so naive. I wonder how humanity landed in the situation where half of all managers don't get the first thing about managing people.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#66

Post by CPLX »

wayoutthere wrote: post #3

Mark Cuban got it right last week when he said that the way companies treat their employees over the next few months will define their brand for the next several decades. Companies insisting on this level of control are simply adding cost now and making employee retention difficult for when we end up coming out of this. If your company can't handle ground-level employees having some autonomy in their work, then your…

> If your company can't handle ground-level employees having some autonomy in their work, then your business model isn't likely to survive.

> Besides, given the extraordinary circumstances I don't think it's fair to expect everyone to be equally productive to being in the office.

It's worth noting that you're describing a very specific subset of the world of employment, namely people who work with some degree of autonomy in an office setting.

I would be shocked if even half of the American workforce primarily works in an "at a desk" or equivalent type position.

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#67

Post by gambiting »

lodovic wrote: post #64
gambiting wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the EU and I cannot think of a single law where the employeer cannot take screenshots of the machines they own. I'll be happily proven wrong though.

Only if the employee is informed upfront. Otherwise it's a privacy issue.

Let's assume they were informed upfront - there's nothing illegal about it then, is there?

Re: Bosses panic-buy spy software to keep tabs on remote workers

#68

Post by Silhouette »

gambiting wrote: post #51
numlock86 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is illegal pretty much at least everywhere within the EU.

I live in the EU and I cannot think of a single law where the employeer cannot take screenshots of the machines they own. I'll be happily proven wrong though.

The mere fact that the employee is at work or using work resources has been found on several occasions to be insufficient justification for serious privacy infringements. These days it would come under GDPR or, in some member states, their national privacy laws where those are stronger.

As a rule of thumb, an employer can take reasonable steps to protect themselves as far as monitoring is concerned, often with the requirement that the subjects of the surveillance have been told in advance that it might happen. But there is always an implied requirement of necessity and proportionality in the background. Monitoring a specific employee where there is evidence to suggest they are leaking trade secrets is one thing. Routine monitoring of everyone's computers where you end up, say, recording the login details they used to access online banking and check whether their expenses have been paid yet is something very different.

Edit: Some easy-to-read sources:

https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/experts/legal/gdpr-implic...

https://gdpr.report/news/2017/11/17/5383/

You can also check the guidance from the various national data protection agencies, such as the ICO's publication "The employment practices code", which address this issue in quite a lot of detail.

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