Wolfram Alpha doesn't "get it" • Hacker News Board

Re: Wolfram Alpha doesn't "get it"

#61

Post by powellc » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 8:55 PM UTC

jwr wrote: post #44

jwr wrote: post #25

Seems to me the author doesn't get it. Wolfram Alpha specifies terms of service, which the author didn't read and subsequently violated.

I find it amusing that people downvote my comment. I guess it is much more rewarding to upvote overinflated stories about how Evil Wolfram Alpha "Doesn't Get It" (often without reading the story, I suspect). Makes for better drama. Frankly, I would much rather read about a 2-bit adder implemented using 36 555 timers.

What a recursive failure to read the story. You accuse others of down-voting for not reading the story, and yet you seem also to have not read the story.

The author admits to having not read the ToS completely. His issue (and the title of his post) is that Wolfram actively enforcing a ToS limiting use except by a human+web browser just doesn't get the internet. And that, my friend, is true no matter how you slice it.

Prohibiting links with search queries embedded in them is anti- the philosophy of the internet. It may work for a top-heavy, externally funded project like Wolfram (who's bread and butter is a desktop app), but would cause a massive failure for a web app trying to turn a profit.

Re: Wolfram Alpha doesn't "get it"

#62

Post by agiletortoise » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 8:55 PM UTC

nkurz wrote: post #45

kragen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a censored comment in response here from the original author of the post. Turn on showdead.

Resurrecting: ----------------- 2 points by agiletortoise 1 hour ago | link [dead] I expect they are. In retrospect, I should have asked first. It something like going to a dinner party and having the host throw you out for placing your fork to the left of the plate, because they put them on the right at their house. Runs contrary to expectations. --agiletortoise ----------------- This doesn't look offensive to me, s…

FYI, in this case, HN hung on me and it ended up double-posted, so I deleted the duplicate.

Re: Wolfram Alpha doesn't "get it"

#63

Post by notyourwork » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 8:57 PM UTC

kragen wrote: post #38

epi0Bauqu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have permission. They seem very reasonable once you get in touch with them.

There's a censored comment in response here from the original author of the post. Turn on showdead.

How do you turn on showdead? Does this require more karma than I have?

Re: Wolfram Alpha doesn't "get it"

#64

Post by perlgeek » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 8:58 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #60

kbutler wrote: post #53

The problem with the Wolfram Alpha terms of service is that they forbid natural, common uses of the web site. "The Wolfram|Alpha service may be used only by a human being using a conventional web browser to manually enter queries one at a time." Think for a minute what that forbids. Generating links programmatically, yes. Tweeting links? Yes. Emailing a URL? yes. Bookmarks? Oh, yeah... Enforceability of the ToS aside…

Tweeting a link seems like a good example of a "common sense use of the website" that could bring it to its knees if some queries take 30+ seconds to complete.

Caching exists.

Re: Wolfram Alpha doesn't "get it"

#65

Post by tptacek » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 9:03 PM UTC

perlgeek wrote: post #64

tptacek wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tweeting a link seems like a good example of a "common sense use of the website" that could bring it to its knees if some queries take 30+ seconds to complete.

Caching exists.

"But queries shouldn't ever take 30 seconds". Ok then.

Re: Wolfram Alpha doesn't "get it"

#66

Post by steveklabnik » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 9:05 PM UTC

notyourwork wrote: post #63

kragen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a censored comment in response here from the original author of the post. Turn on showdead.

How do you turn on showdead? Does this require more karma than I have?

There should be a setting in your profile.

I'm not sure if it requires karma.

Re: Wolfram Alpha doesn't "get it"

#67

Post by steveklabnik » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 9:05 PM UTC

nyellin wrote: post #46

kragen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a censored comment in response here from the original author of the post. Turn on showdead.

Is there any way to see the justification for killing a comment? I trust HN's moderators, but it makes me uneasy to realize that there is a whole collection of censored comments that I didn't see until now, because I had showdead disabled.

Nope, they're just dead.

Re: Wolfram Alpha doesn't "get it"

#68

Post by steveklabnik » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 9:07 PM UTC

bpodgursky wrote: post #50

I think it's important to note that many queries on Wolfram Alpha are VERY heavyweight--I've had complex calculations and rendering take 30 seconds to a minute to finish. It's not like Google where a query get a result in a few milliseconds. So while Terminology is not likely to be querying it with lots of formulas, I think the policy exists so a badly thought out automated querier can't accidentally put a huge load…

There's an easy technical solution to this: just block the freaking querier.

Also, if they didn't render a result as an image, maybe it wouldn't take so freaking long...

Re: Wolfram Alpha doesn't "get it"

#69

Post by mc32 » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 9:17 PM UTC

kbutler wrote: post #53

The problem with the Wolfram Alpha terms of service is that they forbid natural, common uses of the web site. "The Wolfram|Alpha service may be used only by a human being using a conventional web browser to manually enter queries one at a time." Think for a minute what that forbids. Generating links programmatically, yes. Tweeting links? Yes. Emailing a URL? yes. Bookmarks? Oh, yeah... Enforceability of the ToS aside…

>The problem with the Wolfram Alpha terms of service is that they forbid natural, common uses of the web site.

It seems that that only applies to general circumstance usage. That is, it appears, once can enter into arrangements with W|A to allow non-human usage of website.

To prove, just search for "calories in apples", for example in Bing or Google search.

Re: Wolfram Alpha doesn't "get it"

#70

Post by notyourwork » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 9:27 PM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #66

notyourwork wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you turn on showdead? Does this require more karma than I have?

There should be a setting in your profile. I'm not sure if it requires karma.

Sorry, I should have looked a bit harder its right bloody there!