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Show HN: From Markdown to Video

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Re: Show HN: From Markdown to Video

#61
post #35
post #19

From a technology point of view, this is really cool. From the view of someone that occasionally watches videos on YouTube, I am trying to figure out a nice way to say... I hate it. Or more specifically, I hate that it generates the voice, and basically enables video content spam. What we don't need more of is cheap, easy to automatically generate videos that are basically spam and/or clickbait, trying to get views.…

> The problem with auto-generated voices in videos like this is as a viewer I can't distinguish between work that someone put deliberate production time into, and something churned out by a content farm. If machine voiced vs human voiced is the only discernible difference in the end, this seems like a non-argument. As someone that is building a tool in the roughly same space (machine voiced video generation), I can j…

>> The problem with auto-generated voices in videos like this is as a viewer I can't distinguish between work that someone put deliberate production time into, and something churned out by a content farm.

> If machine voiced vs human voiced is the only discernible difference in the end, this seems like a non-argument.

The problem is getting to the end -- I don't want to spend several minutes trying to decide if it's spam or useful. It's simply easier and safer for me to use "contains auto-generated voice" as a filter to avoid watching garbage. Specifically I'm talking about videos like the ones discussed in this video [1].

Though I'd generally agree that good quality content is good quality content, I personally think there's something lost by using a machine-generated voice. Good human narrators add nuance and emphasis and energy, and it's much more interesting when someone is passionate or excited about the topic they're talking about and you can hear that come through.

Some humans are bad narrators, of course, and the machine-generated voice may not be worse by comparison. The problem is I'd just rather not listen to an emotionless voice -- whether it's machine-generated or human -- read a script, I'd rather just read it myself.

Maybe I'm wrong and the generated voices are much better than I've heard (any examples?) but I think part of the problem remains in that unless I'm forced to watch (eg, internal training) or have a recommendation come from someone I trust, it's still safer to filter out videos with machine-generated voice as "probably spam/garbage".

> it enables a more iterative way to produce material where you previously couldn't afford to tweak parts of a video, as you would have to narrate it again

I think this is a very compelling feature, but as a potential consumer of these videos (either accidentally on youtube or forced via internal training) I wish someone would come up with a way to enable this without having to resort to using the emotionless robot voice.

This again could just be my personal preference: I think emotionless robot voice is pretty much going to always mean somewhere between low- and mediocre-quality video, and I also think a low quality video is significantly worse than just having an easily-updatable HTML/PDF/whatever document with pictures/screenshots/diagrams as appropriate.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PGm8LslEb4

Re: Show HN: From Markdown to Video

#62
post #61
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with auto-generated voices in videos like this is as a viewer I can't distinguish between work that someone put deliberate production time into, and something churned out by a content farm. If machine voiced vs human voiced is the only discernible difference in the end, this seems like a non-argument. As someone that is building a tool in the roughly same space (machine voiced video generation), I can j…

>> The problem with auto-generated voices in videos like this is as a viewer I can't distinguish between work that someone put deliberate production time into, and something churned out by a content farm. > If machine voiced vs human voiced is the only discernible difference in the end, this seems like a non-argument. The problem is getting to the end -- I don't want to spend several minutes trying to decide if it's…

> Good human narrators add nuance and emphasis and energy, and it's much more interesting when someone is passionate or excited about the topic they're talking about and you can hear that come through.

And... there are some humans tasked with making videos for others and they're just really bad. Again, internal/training videos, etc, done by people without much passion for, or even knowledge of, the task they're training you on. I prefer machine generated voice in those cases, or perhaps even some sort of subtitling that could be piped to the TTS engine of my choice.

Re: Show HN: From Markdown to Video

#64

I'm building the reverse, video to markdown. Paircast combines screen recording, voice transcriptions, and code changes into a markdown guide. http://paircast.io

Wow, that is FANTASTIC. I've not tried it yet, but it looks like a very approachable execution of a brilliant idea. I'm a DevRel who's fascinated by DX and I WANT THIS.

It's a shame it doesn't also capture the code's output and, ideally, the state of the interpreter. For example: at 4:45 in the demo video, he tries to run his code and it fails with an error. It's important for both coding tutorials and DX analysis to capture the text of the output/error.

What would be even better would be capturing the error _and_ the detailed stack trace, ideally with the state of each stack frame. My employer produces SDKs for different languages, so it'd be invaluable for debugging.

I can imagine a couple of different ways of doing this which might not be horrifically complicated to add to the Paircast recorder, though I suspect you're already going down this road. If you'd like to chat more, yell!

Re: Show HN: From Markdown to Video

#65
post #61
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with auto-generated voices in videos like this is as a viewer I can't distinguish between work that someone put deliberate production time into, and something churned out by a content farm. If machine voiced vs human voiced is the only discernible difference in the end, this seems like a non-argument. As someone that is building a tool in the roughly same space (machine voiced video generation), I can j…

>> The problem with auto-generated voices in videos like this is as a viewer I can't distinguish between work that someone put deliberate production time into, and something churned out by a content farm. > If machine voiced vs human voiced is the only discernible difference in the end, this seems like a non-argument. The problem is getting to the end -- I don't want to spend several minutes trying to decide if it's…

I get your point, and in large parts agree with you, but sometimes it's just nicer to have a video to watch (especially if there is also an important visual component to it) than reading the equivalent script.

> Some humans are bad narrators, of course, and the machine-generated voice may not be worse by comparison. The problem is I'd just rather not listen to an emotionless voice -- whether it's machine-generated or human -- read a script, I'd rather just read it myself.

If it's in the end really just a script that's read off, I'd rather have it auto-generated. You are right, there are some people that are "bad narrators" on a technical level (looking at you, people in the CircleCI Youtube ads, which prompted me to start this project), but even "good narrators" like e.g. the guy from the Kurzgesagt videos, often times don't convey any more emotion, and could be replaced with an auto-generated voice.

> Maybe I'm wrong and the generated voices are much better than I've heard (any examples?)

The best one in my opinion you can get of the shelf are the Google WaveNet[0] ones. They are the least "tinny" ones with good pronunciation. Out of the open source ones, Mozilla TTS[1] has some very good results[2], but like all other open source ones it's very hard to get running, and even then it has a much more limited featureset (languages, pronunciation, etc.). Happy to hear suggestions here!

I think we've already crossed a point where the quality is good enough for a lot of applications (= it doesn't distract from the script through constant wrong pronunciation), and the future for the field is looking pretty good.

[0]: https://cloud.google.com/text-to-speech/

[1]: https://github.com/mozilla/TTS

[2]: https://soundcloud.com/user-565970875/ljspeech-logistic-wave...

Re: Show HN: From Markdown to Video

#66
post #57
post #19

From a technology point of view, this is really cool. From the view of someone that occasionally watches videos on YouTube, I am trying to figure out a nice way to say... I hate it. Or more specifically, I hate that it generates the voice, and basically enables video content spam. What we don't need more of is cheap, easy to automatically generate videos that are basically spam and/or clickbait, trying to get views.…

Bear in mind that English is everyone's second-favorite language, which means that probably half its speakers don't always feel comfortable recording or public speaking. This helps them over the hump.

Definitely (example: me), but it can also apply to a native speaker of any language. Maybe s/he doesn't have a good voice, no money to spend on an actor or no time to invest on finding one or not of the same gender of the most appropriate voice for the video. Furthermore a synthetic voice makes everything faster. Also no need for a silent recording environment (again, cheaper and faster.)

Re: Show HN: From Markdown to Video

#67
post #19

From a technology point of view, this is really cool. From the view of someone that occasionally watches videos on YouTube, I am trying to figure out a nice way to say... I hate it. Or more specifically, I hate that it generates the voice, and basically enables video content spam. What we don't need more of is cheap, easy to automatically generate videos that are basically spam and/or clickbait, trying to get views.…

> The problem with auto-generated voices in videos like this is as a viewer I can't distinguish between work that someone put deliberate production time into, and something churned out by a content farm.

There's a big difference between good content that is automated into a video, and spam. The key use case for this was helping me focus more on the content, rather than on fiddling with synchronisation and resizing assets. I'm not a native English speaker, and although I speak at quite a few conferences per year, listening to my broken English accent (which sounds like a Bond villain) in a video is quite distracting, even for me. Even with my best efforts to record my own voice professionally, generated voice sounds a lot better than what I can do.

Re: Show HN: From Markdown to Video

#68

I'm not sure I see why you would want to base this on Markdown. Markdown is designed for a very specific niche, and this falls far outside that niche. It seems it would make a lot more sense to just design the language from scratch, rather than try to bend Markdown to do something it was not at all meant for. For instance, why would you WANT to have an example like this: ![](london.jpg) Welcome to London --- ![](berl…

I totally disagree, and I have the exact opposite reaction. Markdown is something tons of people know already. I literally just glanced over the article and felt I could generate a "narrated PowerPoint", which seems like the main purpose of this, extremely quickly. Why would I want to learn a completely new language because there are some trivially minor syntax oddities with using Markdown? The perfect is the enemy o…

Because you already have to learn a bunch of new stuff, since Markdown does not support this use case.

You could easily borrow some common things from Markdown to make things easier, but this seems to try to force following the Markdown syntax as much as possible, even when that syntax makes no sense in context.

It is much better to invent new things for the cases that are completely new, than try to force a square peg into a round hole.

Re: Show HN: From Markdown to Video

#69
post #27

I'm not sure I see why you would want to base this on Markdown. Markdown is designed for a very specific niche, and this falls far outside that niche. It seems it would make a lot more sense to just design the language from scratch, rather than try to bend Markdown to do something it was not at all meant for. For instance, why would you WANT to have an example like this: ![](london.jpg) Welcome to London --- ![](berl…

you can use JSON or YAML if you like more structure. Markdown has good editor support, so using it as source for videos means video sources render nicely in GitHub, for example. Also, if you don't like ![](), you can just use stage directions with brackets. The equivalent script will be : (image: london.jpg) Welcome to London --- (image: berlin.jpg) Welcome to Berlin

Why have two ways to do the same thing, where one is awkward and the other is not? Just commit to doing things the less awkward way, and throw out the idea that you need to be backwards compatible with something designed for a completely different purpose.

Re: Show HN: From Markdown to Video

#70
post #61
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with auto-generated voices in videos like this is as a viewer I can't distinguish between work that someone put deliberate production time into, and something churned out by a content farm. If machine voiced vs human voiced is the only discernible difference in the end, this seems like a non-argument. As someone that is building a tool in the roughly same space (machine voiced video generation), I can j…

>> The problem with auto-generated voices in videos like this is as a viewer I can't distinguish between work that someone put deliberate production time into, and something churned out by a content farm. > If machine voiced vs human voiced is the only discernible difference in the end, this seems like a non-argument. The problem is getting to the end -- I don't want to spend several minutes trying to decide if it's…

>Good human narrators add nuance and emphasis and energy Imagine you have a product that is used in 3 or 4 different countries and you need to produce regular training videos for customers in those languages.

You seem to be making this "either / or" its simply another tool.

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