Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe • Hacker News Board

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#51

Post by monadic2 » Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #11

crysis2917 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." "that's attributing too much competence to the upper classes to think they could mastermind such a plan" ROFL

"The rich get richer" is a known thing and it's often about things like cronyism, not sheer, objective competence. https://simplicable.com/new/failing-upwards https://simplicable.com/new/cronyism

What is objective competence? The rich reward what they recognize; incompetence is universal.

Unrelated, I have heard from my friends that your homelessness resource site for san diego is still extremely useful, even outside of san diego. Thank you.

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#52

Post by danbolt » Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 9:54 PM UTC

humanrebar wrote: post #23

vkou wrote: post #20

The great part about the flexibility afforded by participating in the gig economy is that gig workers can't get unemployment, and you don't have to provide them with health insurance. That was the major innovation of the last business cycle. It's coming home to roost in a truly spectacular way over the past month.

Before gig delivery workers, all I could get delivered was on behalf of Domino's or UPS. It's a complicated question to answer, so it's probably rhetorical, but if delivery workers needed to work full time and get significantly higher compensation, would we even have the same magnitude delivery service we're talking about here?

I’m okay with that in all honesty, and wouldn’t consider it a market failure. I don’t think the true cost of Thai food to my door during a pandemic is represented in its price.

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#53

Post by DoreenMichele » Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 10:00 PM UTC

monadic2 wrote: post #51

DoreenMichele wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The rich get richer" is a known thing and it's often about things like cronyism, not sheer, objective competence. https://simplicable.com/new/failing-upwards https://simplicable.com/new/cronyism

What is objective competence? The rich reward what they recognize; incompetence is universal. Unrelated, I have heard from my friends that your homelessness resource site for san diego is still extremely useful, even outside of san diego. Thank you.

Objective competence:

Let's say you are playing a free game you downloaded to your phone. You don't have to spend money to accomplish anything in particular, but if you have money to spare, you can spend actual real life dollars on in-app purchases to get past some challenge.

It takes actual skill to get past certain challenges. Rich people can be sort of halfway competent at playing the game and get farther, faster because they can rely on in-app purchases.

Real life is not unlike that.

In real life, rich people are often able to throw money at their problems. Poor people are not able to do the same.

If poor people want a solution, they have to be extremely competent to make that happen. They can't hire a high-priced lawyer or whatever to fix the mess for them.

It gets compounded because rich people will have compassion for the problems of other rich people and hire them out of pity when their consulting business is in a slump. Poor people will be rejected and told their inability to find adequate work is evidence of incompetence and that they don't deserve to be hired.

Once you are rich enough, people will kiss your ass, help you save face, etc when you fuck up.

Poor people generally don't get the same courtesies.

This has been a huge problem for me in recent years. Men on HN are obviously competent if they have a lot of karma. My high karma count isn't considered evidence of competence and my need for an income is me "panhandling the internet."

Etc. Ad nauseum.

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#54

Post by grandridge » Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 11:06 PM UTC

onetimemanytime wrote: post #21

strike, ask for more money and protection. F the rest. Placing the life on the line for less than living wage, just not worth it.

So tired of all this living wage crap. Hopefully you are just young idealogues. Sorry but working at McDonald's, Walmart, Disney World, or instacart were never meant to pay a living wage. They are unskilled positions meant for young workers entering the workforce to gain skills and experience or other workers to make extra money. And they don't have to exist at all. Someone think of a way to create extra money for people and all of the sudden it must support a living wage! Stop repeating platitudes ad nauseum. You are not as smart as you think you are. Why should picking up someone's groceries and bringing to their house justify a living wage as you call it?

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#55

Post by ShorsHammer » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 12:19 AM UTC

bamboozled wrote: post #17

netfl0 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the chances of getting contaminated food are incredibly high Source?

Why do people keep asking for a source to back up pretty straight forward statements. Was that an unusual or surprising statement? It would seem like common sense at this stage that if someone with an infectious disease sneezes on your raw salad leaves or your cold lasagna, you're probably getting it too no? If you think the OPs comments are important, maybe you could also go verify this information yourself and post…

> go verify this information yourself

That's not how debate works online or has worked for millennia. The onus is on the person making the claim to prove it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#56

Post by humanrebar » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 2:09 AM UTC

simoom22 wrote: post #34

humanrebar wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...all too often an outcome of a large bureaucracy > If the US had universal healthcare, this would be less of a problem. Italy's socialized healthcare apparently didn't cut it. There are plenty of examples of the existing U.S. healthcare bureaucracy royally screwing up in the covid response. Do I'm not buying the logic that an even bigger bureaucracy is the solution to Kafkaesque bureaucracy, at least not for this…

I can't imagine there's any healthcare system that has more bureaucracy than the US.

American single payer could well be.

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#57

Post by saganus » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 4:48 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #48

livueta wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Saying impaired people shouldn't have to work and from there arranging a world where they aren't allowed to work is a nightmare scenario where any defect cuts you out of the system entirely. This really struck me. There's an interesting stain of American progressivism that sees a bad situation and, in earnestly attempting to address it, makes the problem worse. See the death of SROs and various forms of actually af…

I got off the street by moving into a 100 year old SRO. I had a nightmare just last night about being evicted. They've essentially outlawed gig work in California. I left California to get back in housing. I spent three years researching where I could move to make my life work. There isn't any place else I can go. If I get evicted, I'm screwed. I can't go back to California and wouldn't want to, but no place else has…

I wish there was something meaningful I could say or do to help you.

I've read your posts over the years and always found them interesting and well written. It has changed the way I look at homelessness, even though I'm not from, or live in, the US.

Just know that, for what it's worth, you have at least made one person change their mind.

I know it's not much and it won't solve any of the issues you have, but I really hope things work out for you. I won't say "everything will be ok" because I don't know if they will be... but I hope I can at least warm your heart or make you smile for a few seconds while reading this.

I really wish for you to find the strength, luck, light at the end of the tunnel, or however you wanna call it, to pull through this situation.

You have obviously poured a lot of energy and well articulated and informative thoughts into this forum and I'd like to at least thank you for what I've learned from them.

Godspeed Doreen.

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#58

Post by DoreenMichele » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:04 AM UTC

saganus wrote: post #57

DoreenMichele wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got off the street by moving into a 100 year old SRO. I had a nightmare just last night about being evicted. They've essentially outlawed gig work in California. I left California to get back in housing. I spent three years researching where I could move to make my life work. There isn't any place else I can go. If I get evicted, I'm screwed. I can't go back to California and wouldn't want to, but no place else has…

I wish there was something meaningful I could say or do to help you. I've read your posts over the years and always found them interesting and well written. It has changed the way I look at homelessness, even though I'm not from, or live in, the US. Just know that, for what it's worth, you have at least made one person change their mind. I know it's not much and it won't solve any of the issues you have, but I really…

Thank you.

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#59

Post by dhoror32423 » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 10:03 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #48

livueta wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Saying impaired people shouldn't have to work and from there arranging a world where they aren't allowed to work is a nightmare scenario where any defect cuts you out of the system entirely. This really struck me. There's an interesting stain of American progressivism that sees a bad situation and, in earnestly attempting to address it, makes the problem worse. See the death of SROs and various forms of actually af…

I got off the street by moving into a 100 year old SRO. I had a nightmare just last night about being evicted. They've essentially outlawed gig work in California. I left California to get back in housing. I spent three years researching where I could move to make my life work. There isn't any place else I can go. If I get evicted, I'm screwed. I can't go back to California and wouldn't want to, but no place else has…

My grandma was basically a Russian subsistence farmer and died as one. She had three children and one of them learned German and met a German man in Poland and eventually married him. That was my mother. However, the relationship became violent and abusive by the time I was 4. When my mother got a divorce she immediately left the city and moved to an different city that turned out to be extremely car dependent. The first thing she did was get a driver's license and a used Golf 3 for $2000. It was 15 year old at that time and pretty much nearing the end of it's life. She managed to bring up two children on unemployment benefits and seasonal work. Unfortunately one of the children has autism, back problems at a young age and major digestive problems and the other child was normal but got a worthless degree. Was all of that struggle worthless in the end? No. I'm the "cripple" but I personally am doing just fine as a developer and I am actually out-earning my other sibling.