Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 193 posts

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#41

Post by runarberg »

matwood wrote: post #30
brenden2 wrote: post #7

What I've been hearing on the internet is that companies are racing to lay off as many people as they need to now, before applying for their free bailout money from the government. It also sounds like businesses are trying to lay off more than they actually need to lay off, in order to get the maximum benefit. The terms of the bailout loans are such that they can lay off people before they apply, get the money, and s…

Do you have a good link explaining the details on the loans -> grants? I’m having a hard time finding an analysis of the final signed bill.

I don’t know how this works in the US, but in Iceland they are offering loans with 50% backing from the state. Meaning that if they fail to pay back the state will pay 50%. This is effectively a grant in all but name since the company has no intensive to pay, but full incentive to have have the state pay.

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#42

Post by brenden2 »

praptak wrote: post #34
brenden2 wrote: post #7

What I've been hearing on the internet is that companies are racing to lay off as many people as they need to now, before applying for their free bailout money from the government. It also sounds like businesses are trying to lay off more than they actually need to lay off, in order to get the maximum benefit. The terms of the bailout loans are such that they can lay off people before they apply, get the money, and s…

"And the principle of really existing free market theory is: free markets are fine for you, but not for me. That’s, again, near a universal. So you — whoever you may be — you have to learn responsibility, and be subjected to market discipline, it’s good for your character, it’s tough love, and so on, and so forth. But me, I need the nanny State, to protect me from market discipline, so that I’ll be able to rant and r…

Private profits, public risk.

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#43

Post by erikerikson »

CoryAlexMartin wrote: post #8
Ididntdothis wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days I wold argue that especially in small businesses and startups the first employees are the real risk takers. The owners/founders will usually find a way to get some money when a company is failing while the employees get nothing.

How are owners of small businesses able to make money while their company fails? I would like to know because I plan on starting a business in the coming year.

IP, code, contracts, customers, data

The point of starting a company is that you pay time-limited salaries to employees while accumulating investments in systems, tools, and processes that allow for/increase the efficiency of the generation of profits through doing something valuable for others. The portable assets among those investments remain valuable if that value can be harnessed for some context somewhere. Often, these values are far lower than they would be if you had a functioning organization operating them but something is better than nothing.

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#44

Post by zaroth »

brenden2 wrote: post #7

What I've been hearing on the internet is that companies are racing to lay off as many people as they need to now, before applying for their free bailout money from the government. It also sounds like businesses are trying to lay off more than they actually need to lay off, in order to get the maximum benefit. The terms of the bailout loans are such that they can lay off people before they apply, get the money, and s…

> The terms of the bailout loans are such that they can lay off people before they apply, get the money, and so long as they don't lay off any additional people after they get the money, the loan converts into a grant.

This is false. The formula for the maximum amount of the loan is based on last years employment levels, or optionally, for companies that were not in business last year, based on January-February employment levels.

Any layoffs now do not help make the loan any larger, they will in fact reduce the size of the loan.

See Section 1102(a)(2)(36)(E) and 1106(d)(2).

The formula for the amount of the loan which can be forgiven is based on the employment levels remaining at last year's levels. There is an exemption in the case of tipped workers, as long as any layoffs are hired back by June 30th. (that is to say, the number of employees, not the same employees)

EDIT:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/748/...

  The amount of loan forgiveness under this section shall be
  reduced, but not increased, by multiplying the amount described
  in subsection (b) by the quotient obtained by dividing--

  (i) the average number of full-time equivalent 
      employees per month employed by the eligible recipient 
      during the covered period; by
  (ii)(I) at the election of the borrower--

    (aa) the average number of full-time equivalent 
         employees per month employed by the eligible recipient 
         during the period beginning on February 15, 2019 and 
         ending on June 30, 2019; or
    (bb) the average number of full-time equivalent 
         employees per month employed by the eligible recipient 
         during the period beginning on January 1, 2020 and 
         ending on February 29, 2020;

     (II) in the case of an eligible recipient that is 
          seasonal employer, as determined by the
          Administrator, ...

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#45

Post by erikerikson »

tucaz wrote: post #15
CoryAlexMartin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are owners of small businesses able to make money while their company fails? I would like to know because I plan on starting a business in the coming year.

I’d like to know too. If it’s so easy to make money while failing I think I might start a business just to fail and make money. Rinse and repeat and I’ll be rich very fast.

I didn't see the part where anyone wrote that it was "easy".

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#46

Post by throwqwerty »

praptak wrote: post #34
brenden2 wrote: post #7

What I've been hearing on the internet is that companies are racing to lay off as many people as they need to now, before applying for their free bailout money from the government. It also sounds like businesses are trying to lay off more than they actually need to lay off, in order to get the maximum benefit. The terms of the bailout loans are such that they can lay off people before they apply, get the money, and s…

"And the principle of really existing free market theory is: free markets are fine for you, but not for me. That’s, again, near a universal. So you — whoever you may be — you have to learn responsibility, and be subjected to market discipline, it’s good for your character, it’s tough love, and so on, and so forth. But me, I need the nanny State, to protect me from market discipline, so that I’ll be able to rant and r…

[flagged]

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#48

Post by goatherders »

brenden2 wrote: post #7

What I've been hearing on the internet is that companies are racing to lay off as many people as they need to now, before applying for their free bailout money from the government. It also sounds like businesses are trying to lay off more than they actually need to lay off, in order to get the maximum benefit. The terms of the bailout loans are such that they can lay off people before they apply, get the money, and s…

"What I've been hearing on the internet..."

Good grief

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#49

Post by FillardMillmore »

fonkyyack wrote: post #10
brenden2 wrote: post #7

What I've been hearing on the internet is that companies are racing to lay off as many people as they need to now, before applying for their free bailout money from the government. It also sounds like businesses are trying to lay off more than they actually need to lay off, in order to get the maximum benefit. The terms of the bailout loans are such that they can lay off people before they apply, get the money, and s…

I agree with you with the first point, giving money to companies isn't a good idea but I think it's also a bad idea to give it to "the people". I think it would be better to change. My opinion is most people are going to buy thing they don't need. Instead we could focus on better ideas for the future.... I don't know maybe I'm too utopist...

"Bad idea" vs. "Good idea" seems too restrictive to me. I think there are pros and cons to it and the sum total of those pros and cons may be different depending on your circumstances, finances, and personal beliefs. There are some people who need economic relief now and not a moment later. Giving money to 'the people' can help with this but also carries long term consequences like inflation of the currency. Not to mention, the range of people getting money may be too broad - for example, I'll be receiving a check but I don't think I need it at all. Creating a more restrictive or specific criteria for the delivery of this relief though would likely become somewhat of a bureaucratic nightmare and would inevitably slow things down. We've had similar stimulus packages in the past and whether they were effective in their goals is up for debate.

https://taxfoundation.org/did-2001-tax-rebate-checks-stimula...

https://www.thebalance.com/bush-economic-stimulus-package-33...

Post reply on HN