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Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

latimes.com

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Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#11

Post by DoreenMichele »

crysis2917 wrote: post #9
DoreenMichele wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." I doubt that the birth of the precariat was consciously and intentionally master planned by anyone. In some sense, that's attributing too much competence to the upper classes to think they could mastermind such a plan. In another, it's calling them more deeply and comically idiotic than they merit because even rich people are scared here lat…

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." "that's attributing too much competence to the upper classes to think they could mastermind such a plan" ROFL

"The rich get richer" is a known thing and it's often about things like cronyism, not sheer, objective competence.

https://simplicable.com/new/failing-upwards

https://simplicable.com/new/cronyism

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#12

Post by raws »

netfl0 wrote: post #10
altmind wrote: post #6

with the food-industry people cannot afford healthcare for themselves and made to work, to get the means to live, I'm very scared to order anything from any prepared-food establishments. the chances of getting contaminated food are incredibly high, esp if you order smth not thermally processed.

> the chances of getting contaminated food are incredibly high Source?

I think that independently from what the original comment said, it can be easily conceived and taken into account how UK style restaurants health and sanitary ratings could easily correlate with one's possibility of contracting the virus given the sanitary level of an establishment. The same could be done for any country.

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#13

Post by erpellan »

The really stupid part is that keeping the delivery workers safe is ALSO keeping the wealthy consumers (and owners of those businesses) safe!

If you're holed up at home and SARS-CoV-2 strolls in your front door on the outside of your toilet paper then you might as well have just taken the risk and gone shopping yourself! Such painful short-sightedness.

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#14

Post by raws »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #4
fergie wrote: post #3

Thats the whole point of creating a precariat: rich peoples lives get safer and easier, poor peoples lives become less secure and harder. The system is working as intended. Three cheers for the gig-economy!!

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." I doubt that the birth of the precariat was consciously and intentionally master planned by anyone. In some sense, that's attributing too much competence to the upper classes to think they could mastermind such a plan. In another, it's calling them more deeply and comically idiotic than they merit because even rich people are scared here lat…

Yet it is quite clear and obvious how the rich have easier access to the regulators of the system through subsystems like lobbying which in effect skews the rules in their favor especially since the regulators are hardly ever issued from the lower classes which has the artificial indirect effect to reinforce their representation in the system and consequently the creation of rules for this highly privileged class just on the simple fact of ease of access in comparison to the lower classes whom don't even necessarily have the proper education to understand how such systems negatively affect their proper democratic representation on the political level.

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#15

Post by raws »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #8
pdkl95 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I doubt that the birth of the precariat was consciously and intentionally master planned by anyone. It was consciously and intentionally create, but the planning is usually obscured behind euphemisms. Nobody directly says they are trying to make employment more precarious; they say they are making a new type of business that is "more efficient". > unintended consequences The consequences may not be intended , but p…

I began doing gig work while deathly ill and homeless. It was the only kind of paid work I had access to and the world absolutely wasn't throwing money at me out of compassion for my terrible sob story. (I have a genetic disorder, no criminal record etc etc so I'm one of the clearly "unfortunate and deserving poor.") I happen to work for a service that is well designed and gives me control over the things that matter…

I don't think you can use your own anecdotal case to disprove a huge societal movement affecting tens of millions when in some cases the current market offerings albeit inflexible in some of their aspects and need a revamp already exist and cover the great majority of the market ie: cabs vs uberlikes.

Edit1: Could you clarify, I'm curious as to what kind of the jet set class items would be accessible at the entry level or not so far high in the gig-econ?

Edit2: Also I do not mean to say that the gig-econ does not offer economical sustenance or reinsertion for workers that cannot endure more classical jobs but they're the great minority in these kind of jobs but that is just my own opinion and read on the market

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#16

Post by DoreenMichele »

There was a recent article on HN about nurses being evicted from their homes for being nurses because of the pandemic. So it's really honest to god not just gig workers who are getting shafted here and treated like "lepers" so to speak.

Some of the stuff described in the article is really unfortunate and all too often an outcome of a large bureaucracy. That doesn't make it okay. They need to come up with better procedures and err on the side of making sure people don't deliver while infected and that they get any sick pay they deserve.

Supposedly, there's a stimulus package coming out that may help give some people relief as well. And I think we need a whole lot more emphasis on preventative measures generally for this pandemic.

If the US had universal healthcare, this would be less of a problem. If we solved some of our other issues, like our housing supply issues, this would be less of a problem.

Blaming the distress these workers are experiencing entirely on the fact that they are gig workers isn't reasonable. That's just one piece of the picture here.

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#17

Post by bamboozled »

netfl0 wrote: post #10
altmind wrote: post #6

with the food-industry people cannot afford healthcare for themselves and made to work, to get the means to live, I'm very scared to order anything from any prepared-food establishments. the chances of getting contaminated food are incredibly high, esp if you order smth not thermally processed.

> the chances of getting contaminated food are incredibly high Source?

Why do people keep asking for a source to back up pretty straight forward statements. Was that an unusual or surprising statement?

It would seem like common sense at this stage that if someone with an infectious disease sneezes on your raw salad leaves or your cold lasagna, you're probably getting it too no?

If you think the OPs comments are important, maybe you could also go verify this information yourself and post back if you find something worthwhile refuting the original claim.

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#18

Post by syshe »

bamboozled wrote: post #17
netfl0 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the chances of getting contaminated food are incredibly high Source?

Why do people keep asking for a source to back up pretty straight forward statements. Was that an unusual or surprising statement? It would seem like common sense at this stage that if someone with an infectious disease sneezes on your raw salad leaves or your cold lasagna, you're probably getting it too no? If you think the OPs comments are important, maybe you could also go verify this information yourself and post…

You are pretty smug for someone who has a hard time reading.

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#19

Post by DoreenMichele »

raws wrote: post #15
DoreenMichele wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I began doing gig work while deathly ill and homeless. It was the only kind of paid work I had access to and the world absolutely wasn't throwing money at me out of compassion for my terrible sob story. (I have a genetic disorder, no criminal record etc etc so I'm one of the clearly "unfortunate and deserving poor.") I happen to work for a service that is well designed and gives me control over the things that matter…

I don't think you can use your own anecdotal case to disprove a huge societal movement affecting tens of millions when in some cases the current market offerings albeit inflexible in some of their aspects and need a revamp already exist and cover the great majority of the market ie: cabs vs uberlikes. Edit1: Could you clarify, I'm curious as to what kind of the jet set class items would be accessible at the entry lev…

I had portable income and the freedom to go where I wanted more or less at will.

My case doesn't prove that millions of people aren't being given a raw deal. It just indicates that gig work doesn't have to be a raw deal and it is possible to design systems that work well.

I've tried to promote that idea in the past. It didn't really catch on. Most people basically agree with you and feel that I'm some bizarro statistical outlier and not really an example of how to do this well and what we should be aiming for.

As long as the people creating startups generally agree with you, we will continue to see more gig work that craps all over the workers. I don't think it has to be that way. I don't think it should be that way. I see enormous potential for gig work to make the world a better place.

But the world is probably not going to stop being a shitty place full of shitty people just because I'm capable of envisioning something better sprouting from the muck. Most likely, such visions will continue to be crushed under the boot of those in power and continue to go nowhere fast.

Same as it ever was.

Edit2: Also I do not mean to say that the gig-econ does not offer economical sustenance or reinsertion for workers that cannot endure more classical jobs but they're the great minority in these kind of jobs but that is just my own opinion and read on the market

I've seen data that suggests that up to 60 percent of people are at least moderately handicapped. Most downplay it and don't want to wear the label "handicapped" or "disabled."

Such people benefit enormously from having more control over their lives, such as when, where and how much they work. This is one of the things rich people tend to have more of than poor people and I think it has substantial impacts on health, productivity and quality of life.

But it's like 4:30 am where I am and I hope to sleep soon, so I don't care to drone on at great length about this topic, though I no doubt could.

Re: Delivery workers are keeping California fed. They say no one’s keeping them safe

#20

Post by vkou »

The great part about the flexibility afforded by participating in the gig economy is that gig workers can't get unemployment, and you don't have to provide them with health insurance.

That was the major innovation of the last business cycle. It's coming home to roost in a truly spectacular way over the past month.

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