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Huawei is dividing Western nations

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Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#91

Post by luckylion »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #75
matsemann wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average reader of HN would rather have their data shared with the US, then with China. Why is that? If anything I'm a bit at the opposite. Prism, cambridge analytica and the likes means that my western data is actively being used against me, by our own governments etc. It may be naive but it almost feels safer having my data in hands not cooperating with western intelligence...

No one in the West will put you in concentration camps for having your opinion. They won't censor it also

So anything short of concentration camps is fine? This reads as if COINTELPRO hasn't happened.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#92

Post by frequentnapper »

matsemann wrote: post #78
NicoJuicy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one in the West will put you in concentration camps for having your opinion. They won't censor it also

No one in China will put me in a camp either, as I don't live or travel there. Which is my point. Not saying usa will put me in a camp, but currently they have more options to screw me over. (and us do put children in camps) It may be a bit hyperbole. But I just don't want to be so quick to accept the narrative that west=good east=bad

Not yet. I fully believe that if China had as much power as USA, I (a canadian) would already have been kidnapped and put into a concentration camp for criticising China/Xi.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#93

Post by giantDinosaur »

redis_mlc wrote: post #33
millstone wrote: post #15

How is it that the west allowed Huawei to gain such a lead in 5G? If this has national security implications, why didn't the US support its domestic telecom firms?

The US, outside of the military, has a failure to make policy, whereas China has very clear development policies. Why is that? The US is led mainly by lawyers, where facts are debatable, whereas most of China's leaders are STEM graduates. Thus China has constructed around 50 new cities and airports in the past couple of decades, while the US literally can't dig a tunnel from one side of Central Expressway in Mountain…

Are you talking about the same China that understood the risk of disease so well it allowed wet markets to flourish in the most abject hygiene conditions possible? I suppose they perhaps lack virologists or similar in their 'STEM graduate', technocratic government. Or perhaps they just didn't care. This meme of China being ultra competent needs to die; they have 1.4 billion people, there's enough latent talent there that'll shine through despite the best attempts by the CCP to kill a lot of it.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#94

Post by frequentnapper »

chvid wrote: post #85
danmaz74 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the president of the USA openly disparages Europe at every opportunity, it's pretty difficult to feel very sympathetic with the us administration on such matters.

I don't think Americans realise how much diplomatic influence has been lost in Europe. To me the American tradition of a politicised diplomatic corps is to blame. The politics of Trump is just very far from mainstream European politics. I am personally convinced that had the campaign against Huawei been done by the Obama administration there would be no Huawei technology in the EU at this point.

I am curious why it wasn't. Did Obama just drop the ball? I'm sure he knew how much of a serious threat Huawei was.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#95

Post by blackrock »

chvid wrote: post #11

I think the main issue is that most europeans are just not so hot on a war with China as the americans are; even after a massive media campaign. I believe the next move by the US will be to force TSMC not to supply Huawei. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-huawei-tech-chips-exc... That will be a major blow to Huawei (and TSMC) and will force the Chinese to setup their own chip production as fast as possible. Wil…

This will be quite interesting.

This is literally, the ultimate Trump card, that Trump himself will play.

If TSMC does this, then they will not only lose Huawei, but they will lose the entire 1.4 billion population market of China. As well as Africa, and likely, Southeast Asia, and India, and Pakistan too. They will probably also lose Eastern Europe, and Russia too. They’ll also probably lose South America too, and the Middle East.

This move might actually kill Android as we know it. Google will lose their preeminence and importance in mobile devices, and operating systems technology. They would also even lose their relevance in the search engine market. They will continue to do fine in the western markets.

This might even make ARM an irrelevant sideshow, and push RISC-V to the forefront. The world could even bifurcate into ARM vs. RISC-V.

Why? Because China will go full throttle and build out their own foundries. Huawei will now push their Harmony OS to the forefront. They’ll make it run on their own Kirin processors, that they built in China. They might even make it run on other processors, like the RISC-V.

Then the other Chinese mobile phone makers will all switch too, knowing that Trump, and the USA now has a target painted on all of their backs.

Alibaba is at the forefront with their RISC-V processor, that they can probably supply this to the other Chinese mobile phone companies.

Now, Intel, AMD, and nVidia, which make billions of dollars from China, will all have a target on their backs, and will end up losing the entire Chinese market too. Good move Trump, you just put 2 bullets into each of your best hardware companies.

Now, the world will have two standards: the western companies of Apple, Intel, nVidia, Google. Versus the upstart Chinese companies that will compete against them, lead by Huawei, Alibaba, and Tencent. They will first dominate the Chinese market, and then they will expand out to Africa, Southeast Asia, and all the other southern third world countries. These countries were never going to buy a $1200 flagship iPhone 12 anyways.

This will indeed, be the most exciting technological challenge of this decade. And we are about to have front row seats, as we watch it play out.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#96

Post by NicoJuicy »

luckylion wrote: post #91
NicoJuicy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one in the West will put you in concentration camps for having your opinion. They won't censor it also

So anything short of concentration camps is fine? This reads as if COINTELPRO hasn't happened.

The power of humans is that they adapt.

Mentioning something of 50 years ago won't help, since I live in the present. Not in the past

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#97

Post by tonyedgecombe »

i_have_suffered wrote: post #54
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is weak following Brexit, it needs friends wherever it can find them.

The UK's weakness was exposed by the 2011 veto and subsequent upending of the EU treaties to suit everyone apart from the UK. We had been floundering in that club since 2009, despite bailing out other members (ie. Ireland) - and when push came to shove Germany and France made it clear that the UK could shove off. The UK is no weaker now than it was then - it's just that it's clear where we stand. The great powers of…

We had a huge influence over the EU, that's gone out the window now. You can't become great by isolating yourself.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#99

Post by markdown »

shasheene wrote: post #83
LatteLazy wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>With this reality, why would any government risk allowing Huawei in their networks? Well firstly because the USA does the same thing. Being technologically ahead, it tends to work on giving it's companies an edge over regulators or competition rather than stealing tech. But no one is being fair here. So you're not choosing between a good guy and a bad guy I'm happy to agree the USA is morally less repugnant than Chi…

The choice is not between the United States and China. It's between Sweden (Ericsson), Finland (Nokia) and China (Huawei).

It's already been established by the Assange fiasco that Sweden is a US lapdog.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#100

Post by hrktb »

shasheene wrote: post #19

Huawei is in large part built upon technology stolen from Cisco and Canada's Nortel Networks. In the latter case, there is strong evidence China was able to maintain access to Nortel's internal networks for over a decade (!!) which helped kill the 117 year old company. [1] The government of China is systematically hacking corporations through the Ministry of State Security, and attempting to the switch the allegiance…

> stolen from

That kind of issue is solved in court with proofs and compensations. Cisco is no small bullied kid and should deal with it without us crying a river about it. They also infringe patents, get caught, pay up settlement fees and continue business as usual.

Not going down this route in this specific case makes it look way more dirty on US side IMO.

> hacking

Cisco has been caught countless times spreading NSA backdoors to the world, they shouldn’t get any moral pass.

I think it comes down to who’s wrongdoing you are willing to turn a blind eye on. If you’re not an US citizen nor don’t see US gov as a reliable ally, the whole Huawei vs the US feud has no clear moral or ethical split.

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