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Huawei is dividing Western nations

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11–20 of 153 posts

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#11
I think the main issue is that most europeans are just not so hot on a war with China as the americans are; even after a massive media campaign.

I believe the next move by the US will be to force TSMC not to supply Huawei.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-huawei-tech-chips-exc...

That will be a major blow to Huawei (and TSMC) and will force the Chinese to setup their own chip production as fast as possible. Will probably be quite a thing to follow.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#12
post #6

China is indeed very divise for our global powerstructures. This Video shows a WHO official battling with this(if you want to look kindly upon him): https://twitter.com/nathanlawkc/status/1243889673207832577 What bugs me is that I'm really unsure if I should post anything critical of China, it's scary what that could mean for my family 30 years down the road.

> What bugs me is that I'm really unsure if I should post anything critical of China, it's scary what that could mean for my family 30 years down the road. I thought the same and I have no family ties there. (Though back in the early 00's I had fun studying in China and had wished to return.) I'm more worried about what happens if we don't speak out. While we need to fix our Western democracies, we can't ignore the b…

> When this is all over, I hope every county tallies the bill for the virus and subtracts that from their debt to China. They lied, hid information, and told us to keep travel open while simultaneously welding people inside their homes. It's worse than negligent, and they should lose their investments overseas to repay the damage done.

I think you're being generous to the administration for assigning blame to China. We didn't really trust anything coming out of China before so why would we conveniently be expected to trust China regarding the virus? There was also plenty of time to see warning signs in countries like South Korea... not to mention several countries that much higher risk for the spread of the virus have contained it (Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore).

If you are to believe Trump then he saved a lot of lives by banning travel from China... and then killed a lot of people by doing absolutely nothing after that.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#13
post #6

China is indeed very divise for our global powerstructures. This Video shows a WHO official battling with this(if you want to look kindly upon him): https://twitter.com/nathanlawkc/status/1243889673207832577 What bugs me is that I'm really unsure if I should post anything critical of China, it's scary what that could mean for my family 30 years down the road.

> What bugs me is that I'm really unsure if I should post anything critical of China, it's scary what that could mean for my family 30 years down the road. I thought the same and I have no family ties there. (Though back in the early 00's I had fun studying in China and had wished to return.) I'm more worried about what happens if we don't speak out. While we need to fix our Western democracies, we can't ignore the b…

I think this rhetoric is a bit over the top. If anything this pandemic is going to buy China goodwill and stature based on their relatively strong posturing on the way out of crisis (vis a vis US) https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-us-traditionally-le...

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#14
post #11

I think the main issue is that most europeans are just not so hot on a war with China as the americans are; even after a massive media campaign. I believe the next move by the US will be to force TSMC not to supply Huawei. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-huawei-tech-chips-exc... That will be a major blow to Huawei (and TSMC) and will force the Chinese to setup their own chip production as fast as possible. Wil…

The Americans might think of East Asians as their slaves, but experience has showed that even the vassals of the US are generally not as hard as the Americans/Europeans would like. This is but a reprisal of the old colonizers running around wrecking Asia to their will; I wonder if India will serve its old role of being the mercenary for destroying Asia again.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#16
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What bugs me is that I'm really unsure if I should post anything critical of China, it's scary what that could mean for my family 30 years down the road. I thought the same and I have no family ties there. (Though back in the early 00's I had fun studying in China and had wished to return.) I'm more worried about what happens if we don't speak out. While we need to fix our Western democracies, we can't ignore the b…

> When this is all over, I hope every county tallies the bill for the virus and subtracts that from their debt to China. They lied, hid information, and told us to keep travel open while simultaneously welding people inside their homes. It's worse than negligent, and they should lose their investments overseas to repay the damage done. I think you're being generous to the administration for assigning blame to China.…

> I think you're being generous to the administration for assigning blame to China.

I pay the administration no mind whatsoever. The way this has been handed by Trump is beyond incompetent. Placing the blame on China is an opinion I reached entirely on my own while the president was still out golfing.

I'm speaking out because I want our leadership to take action. I'll be asking my representatives to stick China with the bill. (They probably won't listen since I've been begging them to shut down and that hasn't happened. But maybe we can collectively turn this meme into compelling policy.)

> why would we conveniently be expected to trust China

China had an obligation to its citizens and to the world. The CCP decided they didn't care if the virus went worldwide. That's homicide, and they should pay for making people whole again.

I'm probably going to lose family members because of this, and I'm very mad about it.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#17
post #4

What are the British thinking? Do they think they'll get a better deal from China than the US? Or is their intention to use this as a bargaining chip against the US?

In addition to the "it's cheaper" point (due to Huawei being a significant recipient of state aid, and European alternatives not being able to receive any state aid), it's worth keeping an eye on some of the wording being used by the UK government.

They've said nothing safety critical or necessary to critical national infrastructure can run over Huawei base stations. It will be a brave (i.e. foolish) mobile operator that turns away large connected vehicle contracts (clearly there will be significant safety implications there), or large scale industrial IoT users.

If the rules are applied as it seems they are designed to, it looks like the intention is to let the operators make that choice, rather than dictating who they will use, while putting in sufficient restrictions to heavily influence it.

Prior to the government's (long overdue) decision on this topic, which came after 5G non-standalone networks were deployed in the field in some cities, the operators all came out to say how much it would cost them to remove all their Huawei equipment and replace it. They lobbied hard to be allowed to keep using it! But it seems that perhaps they have been given a decision that they themselves haven't quite realised will feel an awful lot like a ban...

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#18
America historically is infamous for making sure that anything besides their system (capitalism, supposedly) fails to work, and taking quite an active approach to make sure it happens.

In theory, if you believed you're doing things the right way then you shouldn't have to worry about making sure another system fails (if it doesn't fail, then maybe you were wrong?).

This applies as much to startups and their attitudes towards competitors (you shouldn't worry about what your competitor does, only that your product is good) as it does to nations and their attitudes towards competing economic and government systems.

The crux of this issue is purely political, and based on fears of potentially losing American supremacy. The article even references China as a "rival", and that's exactly what the fears are based on: rivalry.

If you believe that these anti-China sentiments from these politicians have anything to do with a belief in freedom, democracy, or human rights, then you're just as brainwashed as the supporters of the Chinese communist party. If our politicians believed in human rights then why didn't they do anything to stop China earlier? Why do they only care when China releases cheaper better technology that could potentially unseat their dominance? Seems like a convenient time to start caring about freedom. Why is accepting cheap plastic crap acceptable, but advanced technology not acceptable?

What is the end-game here? If you disagree with the Chinese system then you should be taking action against them. Otherwise it seems like the goal is just to keep the country in a subdued position for eternity, allowing human rights violations so long as your own supremacy is kept?

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#19
Huawei is in large part built upon technology stolen from Cisco and Canada's Nortel Networks. In the latter case, there is strong evidence China was able to maintain access to Nortel's internal networks for over a decade (!!) which helped kill the 117 year old company. [1]

The government of China is systematically hacking corporations through the Ministry of State Security, and attempting to the switch the allegiances of all ethnically Chinese people across the world through the well-funded overseas political interference organization called the "United Front Work Department" [2]. In both the Australian and New Zealand parliaments, China has actually succeeded in installing individuals with undeclared links to government of China political interference and espionage organizations: Gladys Liu and Jian Yang. While there is no smoking gun that they are directly acting as spies, there is significant amounts of circumstantial evidence that they have been compromised by government of China influence operations. I don't need to explain the risk of politicians compromised by an adversarial government making key national defense decisions.

With this reality, why would any government risk allowing Huawei in their networks?

[1] https://www.afr.com/technology/how-chinese-hacking-felled-te...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTXPxWtl8Zw

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#20
So the US preaches nationalism, protectionism, and isolationism except when it's not in their own interest?

Edit: My point (which probably wasn't clear) was that if you run an "America First" agenda. Don't be surprised when your allies start prioritizing their own interest above mutual interests.

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