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Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

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Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#201

Post by [deleted] »

chrischen wrote: post #190
brigandish wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take this in parts which I always think looks aggressive but I assure you it's not. We're all concerned and want the best :) > that hardly means that it is 100% ineffective otherwise It may not be 100% ineffective for a single event, it needs to be effective over the entire period of use. Point 1, yes, sick people should wear masks. This is already known. Most people aren't sick. > 2. The mask prevents you from…

> > that hardly means that it is 100% ineffective otherwise >It may not be 100% ineffective for a single event, it needs to be effective over the entire period of use. Point 1, yes, sick people should wear masks. This is already known. Most people aren't sick. I don't see the logical reasoning behind why it has to be effective over the entire period of use. The whole rational behind curve flattening is that we do as…

[deleted]

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#202

Post by tanilama »

jdkee wrote: post #144

I have been watching the Cuomo NYS briefings for the past two weeks. This is what leadership looks like. He fucked up early with the "we won't shut down the economy" bit but has come around. Similarly, Gov. Pritzker of Illinois has been on top of this, apart from his fuckup of allowing the primary elections to to go through putting people on top of each other to maintain a regular election cycle. Mike DeWine has been…

Cuomo projects confidence. But he doesn't have enough means to solve it. He can ask, but it is not within range of his power to make that significant.

What US currently lacks in its response to COVID-19 is coordination, every states are sending different even contradictory message.

That leadership has to be from top down.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#203

Post by tanilama »

standardUser wrote: post #29
yalogin wrote: post #18

Doesn’t logic dictate that all international travel time and from all countries be stopped for a few months?

Even for foreign nationals and those with a legal right to residency? Many nations have thousands and thousands of citizens spread all throughout the world for all kinds of different reasons. Some are on humanitarian missions, some are journalists, some have families abroad. Should they be denied a right to return to their legal country of citizenship, even if they submit to quarantine measurers? A comprehensive ban…

You can have legal rights, but doesn't mean airlines should offer you a seat.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#204

Post by chrischen »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #200
chrischen wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill gates was recently talking on TV about how the virus could have mutated from anywhere... there's also swine flu, bird flu, mad cow disease, yet Jewish and Muslim people don't go around blaming Mexican/American people for their swine consumption sins (at least they shouldn't). Blaming it on the fact that Chinese people ate Bat meat is as bit culturally prejudicial as calling it the Chinese virus.

Chinese medicine has a lot of costs for little if any benefits. Disease from live animals is just one of them, but then their is the medical resources wasted on not really cures, hospital profiteering, and not to mention causing entire species to become endangered or even extinct. Peer review and control study the stuff that works and call it normal medicine, the rest of the folk cures might as well be homeopathy. Bl…

I did some research on bats vs pangolins. It seems that pangolins are illegal in China and sometimes used for medicine (though I'm not sure if consuming them raw is a part of it). I think the practice of illegal animal trading of pangolins is a separate issue altogether from just consuming non beef/pork/chicken food that we're used to.

However from what I can tell the consumption of bats, while uncommon, is just as a normal food source: https://www.quora.com/Do-Chinese-eat-bats?share=1. Though some consider wild animals in general as aphrodisiacs.

> Peer review and control study the stuff that works and call it normal medicine, the rest of the folk cures might as well be homeopathy.

Chinese medicine is also practiced in Taiwan, and while the system differs from the West, it's based on tradition. If you believe in evolution, then you should believe that in general only methodologies that have some effect would survive over time. That's the basis of traditional medicine at least, and just because it's not quantified and understood in the Western way does not mean it is all fake.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#205

Post by brigandish »

34679 wrote: post #180
brigandish wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can tell me in 2 weeks time if that's true when the number of actual cases is impossible for the government to deny any more. As to the masks, in a clinical setting: - clinicians will likely get much closer to someone - patients are much more likely to have an infection - masks are worn properly - masks are disposed of properly - the wearers have had extensive training and experience They don't, as a salaryman mi…

Nobody uses the same arguments for handwashing, even though they would apply. It sounds like education is what's lacking, aside from masks.

Handwashing is shown to be effective in a non-clinical setting though, and there are plenty of efforts to educate people how to handwash even though (I hope) everyone does it every day. Again, the same is not true of masks.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#206

Post by brigandish »

chrischen wrote: post #189
brigandish wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'm reading the actual study too. It proves nothing which is why they conclude with: > We recommend a more compre- hensive intervention study to accurately estimate the pro- tective effect of face masks for preventing influenza virus transmission on long-distance flights. accurately being the operative word. > Just because you can't limit transmission all day does not mean that you should not try at all. I have…

So why are hospitals making home-made masks or using surgical masks when tending to covid-19 patients? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22716618

Because, to repeat myself, there is evidence that surgical masks used by a trained (in the use of masks and in proper behaviour around the sick) clinicians in a clinical setting do have efficacy. These trained people in an entirely different setting than the ones your are advocating their use in by untrained people will also:

- not reuse masks

- remove masks correctly and at appropriate times

- dispose of masks correctly

- engage in several other related behaviours that will prevent transmission

World of difference.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#207

Post by verroq »

brigandish wrote: post #149
verroq wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Point 1, yes, sick people should wear masks. This is already known. Most people aren't sick. > Most people aren't sick. How do you know this given the vast majority of cases are asymptomatic.

I'm going by what is known now , or else how would I ever be able to comment on anything?

The whole point is to prep for the future, if you target the present you’re always going to be one step behind.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#208

Post by jhanschoo »

jdkee wrote: post #175
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What counter examples can you cite as a better response to this issue? The ones I cited in the comment you replied to. China, Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea. Like, I honestly can't think how Cuomo could do worse without actively trying to. He is observing the situation and doing all the obvious things any right-thinking person would, if they were totally unable to make any predictions, had no expert advisers, and w…

Apart from those examples cited: 1. Are relatively homogeneous populations, unlike say NYC. 2. Have a long term behavioural and a culture of wearing masks in public due to pollution and recent experiences of epidemics such as SARS or MERS. 3. Are relatively authoritarian societies unlike the free-wheeling freedoms that U.S. citizens experience. Why would you use them as counterexamples to what the U.S. population sho…

> relatively authoritarian societies

Relatively authoritarian societies like Taiwan that switched parties in a recent election, or SK that impeached their head of state not too long ago.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#209

Post by Engineering-MD »

foobarbecue wrote: post #153

Part of 3 Blue 1 Brown's excellent latest video simulates travel restrictions and suggests they're not very effective: https://youtu.be/gxAaO2rsdIs?t=777 . However, that was only for cutting travel between all communities by a factor of 4, rather than completely banning travel between two particular communities / countries.

It was a great video and I agree with your conclusion. However it’s important to note he specifically states not to generalise his findings as he’s not an epidemiologist and human interactions are often much more complex. I personally don’t see how they would be effective in this instance, but they may have indirect/occult effects not obvious to those without the extra data The Japanese have.
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