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Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

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Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#101

Post by [deleted] »

ModernMech wrote: post #90
tenpies wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen this mentioned, but I'm honestly now sure why Canadians think this. What special measures did Canada take early on? What makes Canada exceptional compared to the US who at least banned some flights? The only difference is that the media doesn't absolutely despise Trudeau, but we're effectively the same. The US is actually surpassing us in testing at this point and some of our most populous provinces have…

> The US is actually surpassing us in testing at this point and some of our most populous provinces have multiple day backlogs in their testing. The US testing numbers are largely due to NY and WA. Per capita the US is still behind most countries. States like MI that are turning into a hot spot are way behind on testing. Florida, our 3rd most populous state with 21 million residents, has tested only 40k people. https…

[deleted]

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#102

Post by lukasm »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #5

With all these provisions: if you've decided it would be a good idea to do, why not do it now? If it's a good idea now, it's going to be twice as good of an idea in three days. And it's going to be four times as good of an idea in six. Etc. Over and over again the organs of governments announce decisions that would be a good idea today that don't come into effect until a few days from now. Which means that the harm d…

>they should have done it yesterday.

The visa waiver program was canceled a week ago, so in pratice there is a ban already. This doesnt change much.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#103

Post by brigandish »

verroq wrote: post #93
brigandish wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can tell me in 2 weeks time if that's true when the number of actual cases is impossible for the government to deny any more. As to the masks, in a clinical setting: - clinicians will likely get much closer to someone - patients are much more likely to have an infection - masks are worn properly - masks are disposed of properly - the wearers have had extensive training and experience They don't, as a salaryman mi…

> clinicians will likely get much closer to someone > patients are much more likely to have an infection Most of the spread is from people that are asymptomatic. You don't know who has the virus or not. So if the argument here is that doctors and nurses are at higher risk, and need more protection, then my counter argument is that you don't know what the risk is simply because people can be asymptomatic. Secondly, ma…

> Even an improperly worn mask is better than no mask.

You can supply the study for that too. From what I've read, and I've been reading as many as I can, it's not true.

> verroq 4 minutes ago | parent | on: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as n...

Even an improperly worn mask is better than no mask.

It's not about achieving 100% perfect protection, it's about some protection.

> Even if somebody pulled down their mask to sneeze, if everyone else had masks on then it won't be as big of a deal.

This is also not true. You have to prevent transmission all day not just in one event or it's meaningless.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#104

Post by mancerayder »

strictnein wrote: post #61
vkou wrote: post #20

My only question is: "Why hasn't the world done this two weeks ago?" The US is failing to test on a massive scale, and the outbreak has been growing exponentially, week after week. Control measures are being taken, but on an inconsistent, fragmented basis.

The US is currently testing ~100k people each day: https://covidtracking.com/us-daily/ The failure at the beginning was not to have capacity ready. The huge US medical system and its very, very large medical industry has finally gotten pointed in the right direction in regards to testing.

It took a very long time to get started. Check the history using the news headlines as your timeline. The Federal government rejected non-US tests/guidelines, while the CDC worked on a test. The test didn't work. The U.S. State of Washington had a solution, but the Federal government rejected it. Meanwhile some countries were conducting tests like crazy and were able to do some initial containment. In The U.S. we continued to go to the beach (Trump country), we went to farmer's markets (DNC country), and neither U.S. political culture made any effort to involve the authority figures to force citizens to stay apart.

Because Freedom.

Nice job, U.S.

I write this holed up in the U.S. city with the most infections and deaths at the moment.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#105

Post by chrischen »

brigandish wrote: post #103
verroq wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> clinicians will likely get much closer to someone > patients are much more likely to have an infection Most of the spread is from people that are asymptomatic. You don't know who has the virus or not. So if the argument here is that doctors and nurses are at higher risk, and need more protection, then my counter argument is that you don't know what the risk is simply because people can be asymptomatic. Secondly, ma…

> Even an improperly worn mask is better than no mask. You can supply the study for that too. From what I've read, and I've been reading as many as I can, it's not true. > verroq 4 minutes ago | parent | on: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as n... Even an improperly worn mask is better than no mask. It's not about achieving 100% perfect protection, it's about some protection. > Even if somebody pulled d…

Less efficient face masks (e.g., surgical or medical) also decrease exposure to aerosols of droplet nuclei to a lesser (8–12 fold) degree than N95 masks (36), and they provide protection against larger droplets. We did not determine the type of mask worn by the passengers; presumably, individually acquired masks represented a mixture of N95 and other less efficient masks. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23968983/)

Can't really tell if those people "improperly" wore the masks but most people prior to COVID-19 wore standard surgical style masks.

As I stated in my previous post, doing things to limit transmission is not a binary act. Just because you can't limit transmission all day does not mean that you should not try at all. Just because we can't completely eliminate Covid-19 doesn't mean that we shouldn't flatten the curve.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#106

Post by leetcrew »

artificial wrote: post #75
penagwin wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a potential counter point - pandemics are generally rare. And are hard to test at airports for until it's too late. Also you can't test for every disease, especially new ones. The best you could do is a several week quarantine on all incoming travelers I would think?

Do you think it's going to be viable moving forward to quarantine as standard operating procedure?

not for any country where tourism is a significant source of revenue.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#107

Post by grej »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #88
vkou wrote: post #20

My only question is: "Why hasn't the world done this two weeks ago?" The US is failing to test on a massive scale, and the outbreak has been growing exponentially, week after week. Control measures are being taken, but on an inconsistent, fragmented basis.

Control measures are supposed to take place on an inconsistent, fragmented basis - American states have significant independent sovereignty.

And far different densities, demographics, levels of travel, airport accessibility, etc.

As lamentable the initial response has been at the federal level, I have take some solace in seeing more local leadership successfully emerge.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#108

Post by seanmcdirmid »

brigandish wrote: post #103
verroq wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> clinicians will likely get much closer to someone > patients are much more likely to have an infection Most of the spread is from people that are asymptomatic. You don't know who has the virus or not. So if the argument here is that doctors and nurses are at higher risk, and need more protection, then my counter argument is that you don't know what the risk is simply because people can be asymptomatic. Secondly, ma…

> Even an improperly worn mask is better than no mask. You can supply the study for that too. From what I've read, and I've been reading as many as I can, it's not true. > verroq 4 minutes ago | parent | on: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as n... Even an improperly worn mask is better than no mask. It's not about achieving 100% perfect protection, it's about some protection. > Even if somebody pulled d…

> It's not about achieving 100% perfect protection, it's about some protection.

But it might not even be 10% or 1% protection, especially outdoors outside of a sterile hospital environment. Is it worth wearing them for a some small amount of protection, or is the false sense of security they provide more dangerous than their benefit?

Surgical masks are pretty leaky compared to N95 masks we wore during crazy bad air days in Beijing, but the latter are so uncomfortable that they cause people to touch their face more, doing more harm than good in this context. That’s why all the videos we see in Asia just have crowds wearing flimsy surgical masks, I mean, they are super easy to wear, so why not, but let’s not delude ourselves into thinking they are doing much good.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#109

Post by Gibbon1 »

JimTheMan wrote: post #33

I mean, I can't speak to how widespread the news is but Australia and NZ have already closed their borders to all foreigners. Europe has done the same, Peru etc etc. Should come as no surprise to anyone that Japan has done the same. If anything it has done it very late in the game. Majority of the spread for unaffected countries is going to be inbound from the outside... In Australia, the inbound cases for corona fro…

I don't fault Japan for closing their borders to the US.

The US's response to the pandemic is frightening. Federal leadership appears to be focused on denial while setting things up to fix the blame on their political opponents when it all goes sideways. Leaving everything up to state and local governments. Some of which are just as bad as the executive branch.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#110

Post by mistermann »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #5

With all these provisions: if you've decided it would be a good idea to do, why not do it now? If it's a good idea now, it's going to be twice as good of an idea in three days. And it's going to be four times as good of an idea in six. Etc. Over and over again the organs of governments announce decisions that would be a good idea today that don't come into effect until a few days from now. Which means that the harm d…

I think there may be an important cultural difference in play here.
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