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The internet should be a public utility

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Re: The internet should be a public utility

#211

Post by lonelappde »

namrog84 wrote: post #151
creato wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless you can deliver me 1Gbps symmetrically like my current fiber, you're inadequate. I currently have two kids doing remote learning, a wife who's starting to VPN at times, and I myself work remotely at least 9 hours a day for the last 20 days. This really shouldn't require such exotic internet. Unless you are downloading large files, it's hard to use more than a few megabits per person on average. Often the nic…

> it's hard to use more than a few megabits per person on average. With the coming rise of streaming services(currently using 6 to 12 mbps) and other things I can regularly see each individual person using 25mbps or more with the rise of 4k. And in a house of 4. That means the house needs 100mbps real capacity. And then it needs to not be bottlenecked on the street with dozens of other houses. And not just streaming…

Why do people need to see pimples of everyone in your family in 4K each?

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#212

Post by coffeefirst »

cbhl wrote: post #95
zbrozek wrote: post #4

I talked with the mayor of Los Altos Hills, CA yesterday where I advocated for a municipal fiber ISP. It seems crazy to me that in Silicon Valley, and specifically in one of its richest towns, that broadband is not available to every residence. She makes a good point: the residents don't care. Her argument is that ~20 mbps DSL is good enough for the elderly population. And further - that for those who find that inade…

I daresay, it's even worse than that. Your neighbors are actively fighting against the installation of infrastructure that would enable faster internet speeds. AT&T tried to bring FTTN to San Francisco years ago, but neighbors decried the "ugly" green boxes that would run down the street. Boxes that are standard in literally any suburb with fast internet. There are limited parts of the bay area with gigabit fiber, in…

I never understand the "green box is ugly" argument. Yes it is. Can we not work out a deal where a local artist paints it and puts a statue on top.

It needs to be a box with stuff in it and access panels, the outer aesthetic doesn't matter and can conform to local tastes.

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#213

Post by justicezyx »

zbrozek wrote: post #4

I talked with the mayor of Los Altos Hills, CA yesterday where I advocated for a municipal fiber ISP. It seems crazy to me that in Silicon Valley, and specifically in one of its richest towns, that broadband is not available to every residence. She makes a good point: the residents don't care. Her argument is that ~20 mbps DSL is good enough for the elderly population. And further - that for those who find that inade…

> She makes a good point

How can that be a good point?...

I think we all know that until an amazing product is presented to the customers, and the customers start to actually use it in its designated ways, the truly amazing product will be loved and touted by the people.

For example, China Mobile was routinely instructed by government to cut price [1]. In 2018-09, I visited Shenzhen, and spend 1 RMB and purchased 1GB cellular data package. This change absolutely is critical to China's booming gig-economy, and general digital transformation (I'll leave the privacy and propaganda debate outside, just for economy).

At the time, can China Mobile claim that "people do not care"? They absolutely can. But government is created to think in long-term prospect.

[1] http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201803/23/WS5ab491d8a3105cdcf...

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#214

Post by malingo »

This weekend here in Los Angeles is the Native Plant Garden Tour [1] which is in its 17th year but being presented this year as a virtual tour.

The quality from the gardeners streaming video over their home Wifi connections is sometimes okay, mostly mediocre, sometimes unwatchable. Of course this is somewhat affected by how far they venture away from their router into their yard, but still it's surprising how universally awful internet service is even in major US cities. And it's so much worse in rural areas.

[1] https://www.nativeplantgardentour.org/

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#215

Post by lstodd »

pshiryaev wrote: post #87
perlpimp wrote: post #3

... or it should be cheap and regulated on pricing. it is crime what western nations charge for it. suppose areas of differing income levels should have different pricing schemes. coming from russia to canada, it is insane that you have to pay 1500% more for same packages for wireless and wired internet.

But in turn, the income of average Russians is 1500% less than in the western nations so the ratio we pay here is adequate. Besides, Russia has good internet only in major cities (>1,000,000 million residents) with residents living in high-rise buildings (like NYC) so the distance and the cost to lay the cables is minimal. Now compare that to a single-family residences in California and you see the argument is false.…

> Besides, Russia has good internet only in major cities

This is just plain not true.

Thanks to not having idiotic ideas like making internet a public utilily among other things.

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#216

Post by war1025 »

threentaway wrote: post #173
kekeblom wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The city of Zurich has what to my understanding is public fiber which is available to most buildings. (I assume there are some exceptions). It is managed by the electricity company run by the city. https://zuerinet.ch Setting up routers, billing etc. has been delegated to any third party ISP willing to do the job. I think they can charge what they want, as there are some very small differences in price. I pay ~44CHF/…

> ~44CHF/month for 100mb/s. While not dirt cheap That _is_ dirt cheap by US prices. Comcast (my only option) is $75/mo for 250/5 (yes, only 5 megabit up!).

$75/mo here in Iowa for 30/30 fiber to the home.

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#217

Post by hkmurakami »

zbrozek wrote: post #189
hkmurakami wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some efforts in LAH at the grassroots level. https://lahcommunityfiber.org/ I imagine the low density of LAH makes the cost of installing fiber throughout town more of a barrier than other areas.

I went to their most-recent meeting. I have some hope for the project, but I don't think it's likely to make it my way before I'm part of the 20-mbps-is-ok elderly population. They've really got to figure out how to be a real ISP and use the preexisting utility easements rather than try to get new ones. As for the cost, they were talking about $1-3k/house depending on how many signed up in a "corridor". That's peanut…

So iirc LAH doesn't have (or has very few of?) conduits that the town itself owns. The part that'll likely happen first is a "dig once" installation of the Utility tunnels that are publicly owned. Gary Kremen (of match.com fame, who's on the water district as well) has been fighting hard for this, and I'd encourage you to reach out to him.

There's an utility undergrounding effort over near the Foothill college fire station area that'll hopefully be the pilot project for this.

What I wasn't aware of until recently was how spotty the broadband coverage is in the town. There are areas with 100mbps, and others with barely any coverage at all from what I've heard. The situation really isn't pretty.

I think the $1k-$3k cost is if you have an existing backbone(?) endpoint near your residence. If you happen to not be close to an existing one, the costs will be much higher. I think the group has some ideas for some short term workarounds.

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#218

Post by mulmen »

mr_toad wrote: post #196
jessriedel wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so crazy because if you have ever seen the same neighborhood with and without power lines, the difference is dramatic. Power lines are horrendously ugly. But after people got use to them, they can barely be bothered to pay 10% extra on their power bill for the lines to be buried. Likewise, people would instantly forget about the green boxes after a few year.

> Power lines are horrendously ugly. So is the 20 foot wide expanse of dirty tar next to the power lines. But people have lived with that all their lives, and barely notice it.

I’m not sure what you are suggesting here. Power lines can be buried but what’s the alternative to residential streets?

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#219

Post by fermienrico »

threentaway wrote: post #173
kekeblom wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The city of Zurich has what to my understanding is public fiber which is available to most buildings. (I assume there are some exceptions). It is managed by the electricity company run by the city. https://zuerinet.ch Setting up routers, billing etc. has been delegated to any third party ISP willing to do the job. I think they can charge what they want, as there are some very small differences in price. I pay ~44CHF/…

> ~44CHF/month for 100mb/s. While not dirt cheap That _is_ dirt cheap by US prices. Comcast (my only option) is $75/mo for 250/5 (yes, only 5 megabit up!).

$40/month 1 Gig - SONIC in Bay area.

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#220

Post by xtat »

zbrozek wrote: post #4

I talked with the mayor of Los Altos Hills, CA yesterday where I advocated for a municipal fiber ISP. It seems crazy to me that in Silicon Valley, and specifically in one of its richest towns, that broadband is not available to every residence. She makes a good point: the residents don't care. Her argument is that ~20 mbps DSL is good enough for the elderly population. And further - that for those who find that inade…

TBH silicon valley broadband is way worse than the service I had in rural PA
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