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Ask HN: Mobile devs who added Apple Sign In, what conversion changes?

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Re: Ask HN: Mobile devs who added Apple Sign In, what conversion changes?

#41

Post by somishere »

shadowgoat wrote: post #6

Haven’t done anything with Apple sign in, but I worked with a lot of other providers before. If you have multiple options, users might forget what service they used. This becomes an even bigger problem if the paid for a service with a different provider and can’t find their purchase. If you do use something like this, only having one provider (only Apple) makes things less confusing.

It's fairly straightforward to let them work interchangeably ... We run FB, Google and passwordless email for login. It doesn't matter which you use, email address is the uid between them. Obvs where a common email address hasn't been used (or isn't available ... does apple login use their proxy emails?) this becomes an issue.

Re: Ask HN: Mobile devs who added Apple Sign In, what conversion changes?

#42

Post by krrrh »

closeparen wrote: post #35
hombre_fatal wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yubikey-style is dead in the water since you can't back them up or exfiltrate the key. It will never appeal to more than a handful of users willing to jump through those hoops. Just needing to have every hardware key on hand to register with each new service is so bad I thought I was misunderstanding the UI. I never used them again. The hoops might be worth it for a critical service that holds your $millions. But har…

I think we will see most client devices natively implement something like WebAuthn with their onboard TPMs. Enrolling new devices for a service would then by a matter of approving the attempt from an already-enrolled device, iCloud style.

https://krypt.co/ Does something like this now by leveraging your mobile device as a security token for desktop logins.

Re: Ask HN: Mobile devs who added Apple Sign In, what conversion changes?

#43

Post by Operyl »

somishere wrote: post #41
shadowgoat wrote: post #6

Haven’t done anything with Apple sign in, but I worked with a lot of other providers before. If you have multiple options, users might forget what service they used. This becomes an even bigger problem if the paid for a service with a different provider and can’t find their purchase. If you do use something like this, only having one provider (only Apple) makes things less confusing.

It's fairly straightforward to let them work interchangeably ... We run FB, Google and passwordless email for login. It doesn't matter which you use, email address is the uid between them. Obvs where a common email address hasn't been used (or isn't available ... does apple login use their proxy emails?) this becomes an issue.

The user is given the choice to use their email, or a proxy email, in the modal that Apple provides on the system side.

Re: Ask HN: Mobile devs who added Apple Sign In, what conversion changes?

#44

Post by skylarchunk »

pedalpete wrote: post #38
shadowgoat wrote: post #6

Haven’t done anything with Apple sign in, but I worked with a lot of other providers before. If you have multiple options, users might forget what service they used. This becomes an even bigger problem if the paid for a service with a different provider and can’t find their purchase. If you do use something like this, only having one provider (only Apple) makes things less confusing.

We have the same problem, it's probably our 3rd biggest support issue. "Where's my stuff??" We offer only Facebook, Google, or Email. People see the email box and start typing in their email, they forget if they signed in with Facebook or Google previously. I'm surprised it isn't the other way around. Of course, this wasn't an issue before we added email, but we got a bunch of requests from people who didn't want to…

It feels to me that Apple affords the benefit of Facebook, in that users do not anticipate asking "where's my stuff". But the added benefit is the perceived security and reliability of Apple.

Re: Ask HN: Mobile devs who added Apple Sign In, what conversion changes?

#45

Post by buzzerbetrayed »

xref wrote: post #19
greggman3 wrote: post #16

I will never use the same service to sign into multiple things. It's a single point of failure. If Apple ever decides to close your account you're S.O.L. I made the mistake once, had an account closed, got royally screwed. It wasn't Apple but it doesn't matter. I learned my lesson. Don't tie things together. I don't follow that for everything but for anything important I do as well as anything involving money.

Similarly if your Apple (or other SSO) login is compromised the blast area is much bigger as all linked sites are now compromised You could make the same argument if your password manager is compromised, but definitely worth being aware of

Just to expound on what you're saying, won't there always be a single point of failure? For example, for the majority of people there are only a few options.

1. Use the same password for all logins because you don't know how to manage unique passwords for all your logins. Obviously this is about as unsecure as you can get.

2. Write your unique passwords down somewhere. This can be in a notebook, or a password manager (1password and the like). In this case, there is still a single point of failure (as you pointed out) if someone finds your book or compromises your password manager.

3. Use some sort of SSO service. Still a single point of failure (Apple, Google, Facebook).

I feel like using Apple SSO with 2-factor authentication is just as secure as any of these options.

Is there any "secure" system that doesn't have a single point of failure?

Re: Ask HN: Mobile devs who added Apple Sign In, what conversion changes?

#46

Post by tmarman »

cmroanirgo wrote: post #13
shadowgoat wrote: post #6

Haven’t done anything with Apple sign in, but I worked with a lot of other providers before. If you have multiple options, users might forget what service they used. This becomes an even bigger problem if the paid for a service with a different provider and can’t find their purchase. If you do use something like this, only having one provider (only Apple) makes things less confusing.

This. I'm not a big user of SSO in general, but on the few sites that I did use it, I'd forget whether I used SSO or not. Also, using SSO locks you into using that vendor. I've a couple of accounts that I'd like to change to normal uname/pwd but am locked into the SSO vendor (which I'm hoping to move away from)

On all sites/apps I’ve built offering SSO, we’ve gone out of our way to support linking of accounts and detecting existing accounts when claims like emails are found. Also allowing for merges after the fact.

I would consider this a best practice when iffering any “ sign in with...”

Re: Ask HN: Mobile devs who added Apple Sign In, what conversion changes?

#47

Post by godzillabrennus »

tmarman wrote: post #46
cmroanirgo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I'm not a big user of SSO in general, but on the few sites that I did use it, I'd forget whether I used SSO or not. Also, using SSO locks you into using that vendor. I've a couple of accounts that I'd like to change to normal uname/pwd but am locked into the SSO vendor (which I'm hoping to move away from)

On all sites/apps I’ve built offering SSO, we’ve gone out of our way to support linking of accounts and detecting existing accounts when claims like emails are found. Also allowing for merges after the fact. I would consider this a best practice when iffering any “ sign in with...”

Would make sense to create package for popular mvc frameworks that does this.

Re: Ask HN: Mobile devs who added Apple Sign In, what conversion changes?

#48

Post by badtuple »

tmarman wrote: post #46
cmroanirgo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I'm not a big user of SSO in general, but on the few sites that I did use it, I'd forget whether I used SSO or not. Also, using SSO locks you into using that vendor. I've a couple of accounts that I'd like to change to normal uname/pwd but am locked into the SSO vendor (which I'm hoping to move away from)

On all sites/apps I’ve built offering SSO, we’ve gone out of our way to support linking of accounts and detecting existing accounts when claims like emails are found. Also allowing for merges after the fact. I would consider this a best practice when iffering any “ sign in with...”

This seems like a nice user experience, but I'd be worried about leaking which email address has an account with us.

Re: Ask HN: Mobile devs who added Apple Sign In, what conversion changes?

#49

Post by mr_toad »

NightlyDev wrote: post #30
shadowgoat wrote: post #6

Haven’t done anything with Apple sign in, but I worked with a lot of other providers before. If you have multiple options, users might forget what service they used. This becomes an even bigger problem if the paid for a service with a different provider and can’t find their purchase. If you do use something like this, only having one provider (only Apple) makes things less confusing.

Doesn't most services just create an account like normal when you sign in with eg. Google, if the email is verified? Then you can just use the forgot password and use your mail to log in without Google even if it was created with Google. At least that is my experience.

No, if you sign in with Google you don’t have a password. There is nothing to forget, or reset. That’s the whole point.

Re: Ask HN: Mobile devs who added Apple Sign In, what conversion changes?

#50

Post by mr_toad »

jrockway wrote: post #5
gigatexal wrote: post #2

I’m not a dev but a consumer in this question and I’d just say a service or site that has Sign In with Apple and Apple Pay available on the web is and instant use on my end. I will continue to vote with my paltry wallet for these technologies to take off even more, especially Sign In with Apple. I don’t want to give my actual email out. I like the relay aspect. And it should make logging in and user management and si…

What apps are using Apple Sign In, anyway? I haven't run into any and kind of just assumed it died or hasn't launched yet.

Pocket uses it.
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