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The internet should be a public utility

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Re: The internet should be a public utility

#111

Post by uk_programmer »

freehunter wrote: post #80
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nothing about public internet in any way implies anything even remotely related to your strawman argument Why not? If the government has a monopoly on internet access, it becomes easier for voters to call for certain sites being blocked or certain sorts of traffic be monitored and/or intercepted.

If we're playing that game, there's a million things they could do as well, but it doesn't make any of them likely. Hell, they could do what you're talking about right now , other countries do that even though their Internet access isn't controlled by the government. The porn ban in the UK is a great example of privately-controlled ISPs being forced to block certain sites. I'll repeat, there is absolutely nothing abo…

The porn ban didn't happen. Even with the "don't go to the pirate bay or we send you a nasty letter" legislation, they stop bothering doing that because nobody paid any attention and threw the letter in the bin.

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#112

Post by pgt »

zbrozek wrote: post #4

I talked with the mayor of Los Altos Hills, CA yesterday where I advocated for a municipal fiber ISP. It seems crazy to me that in Silicon Valley, and specifically in one of its richest towns, that broadband is not available to every residence. She makes a good point: the residents don't care. Her argument is that ~20 mbps DSL is good enough for the elderly population. And further - that for those who find that inade…

We tried this in South Africa. It ended badly with Telkom.

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#113

Post by tarde »

bgorman wrote: post #69

The danger with government nationalizing telecommunications networks is that once it is done, innovation and quality go way down. We had nationalized telecommunications for over 70 years and customers could only have one brand of phone, and we're limited in the number of phones available in their houses. In addition, long distance calling was cost-prohibitive. The monopoly only started cracking when MCI introduced mi…

It's a very wide guess to pick technological advances and attribute to one segment.

It's not like the non-telecom segments were flying cars in the 50s.

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#114

Post by fragmede »

greggman3 wrote: post #106
Aloha wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And compared to virtually every nationalized telecom it provided better, cheaper service that was universally available. Internet access should be regulated like it was a utility however, and that's the great failing of public policy in that area.

Cheaper!?!?! I had $1200 one month long distance bill in 1984. That today is effectively free. Only competition made that happen. If AT&T was still in charge we'd be paying by the call and by the byte.

That seems overly simplistic, especially considering my phone bill today is still billed by the byte, for instance.

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#115

Post by uk_programmer »

chrisbennet wrote: post #109

The local government should own the "pipes" and rent them out. Some people are down on "socialism" without realizing they love it. We have socialized police, fire, sewage, (usually) water and road repair plus some others I'm forgetting. Socialism is people getting together to help each other. Businesses have no special right to view citizens as their exclusive feeding ground.

> The local government should own the "pipes" and rent them out.

This is essentially what happens in the UK. BT have to rent out lines to everyone else.

Guess what? Almost all the ISPs are capped at the speed at whatever BT can provide. The only company I believe in the UK that goes above those speeds is Virgin which almost twice the speed at almost the same price as the competition.

I used to live in the countryside and until there was fibre installed the speeds were terrible (less than 2mb/s). State own broadband isn't magically better.

> Some people are down on "socialism" without realizing they love it. We have socialized police, fire, sewage, (usually) water and road repair plus some others I'm forgetting.

In the UK our council tax pay are supposed to pay for road repair. The roads in the UK are awful. There are pot holes everywhere and I've had 3 punctures last year.

The toll roads (the few of them that exist in the UK) don't have anyone on them. Take 30 minutes a day off my journey time in the car and the road surface is perfect.

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#116

Post by TheColorYellow »

jcrawfordor wrote: post #104
bgorman wrote: post #69

The danger with government nationalizing telecommunications networks is that once it is done, innovation and quality go way down. We had nationalized telecommunications for over 70 years and customers could only have one brand of phone, and we're limited in the number of phones available in their houses. In addition, long distance calling was cost-prohibitive. The monopoly only started cracking when MCI introduced mi…

AT&T also provided an extremely high quality of service, not really seen since that time, and operated a corporate R&D arm that I think could fairly be called the global center of innovation for decades, designing as an almost side-effect of telephone switches a large portion of the computer technology we use today from silicon to operating system. One wonders where the state of the industry would be today had Bell L…

This is awesome content. Any chance you have a book you could recommend on this subject?

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#117

Post by solarwind »

pinacarlos90 wrote: post #13

My question is, what would be the impact on the following areas if the internet was public utility? 1) security/encryption 2) bandwidth distribution 3) content freedom 4) Governance rules (federal gov?)

You already know the answer based on the history of repressive regimes that have monopolies on telecom systems.

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#118

Post by yummypaint »

_delirium wrote: post #36
Iwork4Google wrote: post #25

In order for anything useful to happen in our society, we have to vote. It is now abundantly clear which party values what, and for whom. If we would rather vote based on 'abortion preventing our souls from partying with Jesus in heaven' instead of 'municipal broadband for all residents as a public utility', then we're going to continue to complain about this for another 50 years and beyond. The problem is that sayin…

> It is now abundantly clear which party values what, and for whom. If we would rather vote based on 'abortion preventing our souls from partying with Jesus in heaven' instead of 'municipal broadband for all residents as a public utility', then we're going to continue to complain about this for another 50 years and beyond. If that were true, it'd be great. But which is the party that supports municipal broadband for…

NC is missing from the unfriendly list. I believe it was time warner cable who bribed the state legislature a bit over a decade ago, and again recently. By the legislature i mean almost everyone in one party, and a few in the other. They are of course the only viable ISP in much of the state, though now they go by spectrum because of the constant unchecked mergers. They are worse than ever.

It's true municipal broadband is spreading in all kinds of districts, but in places where it's being debated one particular party always sides with the telecoms. Lets not forget their appointee ajit pai.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20161031/07232735920/after...

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#119

Post by jdsnape »

TheColorYellow wrote: post #116
jcrawfordor wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AT&T also provided an extremely high quality of service, not really seen since that time, and operated a corporate R&D arm that I think could fairly be called the global center of innovation for decades, designing as an almost side-effect of telephone switches a large portion of the computer technology we use today from silicon to operating system. One wonders where the state of the industry would be today had Bell L…

This is awesome content. Any chance you have a book you could recommend on this subject?

It’s mentioned below, but ‘The Idea Factory‘ covers Bell labs and is an excellent read.

Re: The internet should be a public utility

#120

Post by amelius »

pdonis wrote: post #94
amelius wrote: post #58

For much of the same reasons, the postal service and Amazon should be public utilities too.

The postal service in the US is a public utility: the US Post Office is required by law to deliver to any US address. The fact that there are private companies delivering something called "mail" does not change that: none of them are permitted to deliver first class mail, that is a USPS monopoly, and none of them are required to deliver to all US addresses, but the USPS is. I don't know why you would want Amazon to b…

Yes, in the US that's the case but nobody said it will never change.

Regarding Amazon, see for example https://stallman.org/amazon.html#size

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