America's bailed-out airlines are not 'playing fair' with customers

Post by mvid » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

dionian wrote: post #49

orthecreedence wrote: post #4

If we give bail outs, we should get stock/control. End of story. All bailed out companies should be nationalized to some extent, depending on the value of their stock and how much the government buys. A board/council of nationally elected representatives should manage whatever share of these companies the government owns. It's time the citizens started getting a return on their tax dollars if they're being used for p…

Bailouts for government-mandated shutdowns in crises are different than saving the banks for screwing up while trying to make more money.

Post by sjm-lbm » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 6:19 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #25

T-hawk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: do we have historical comparisons, can we refer to instances where nationalizing in the wake of a bailout led to positive results? The one comparable I can think of in the US is Amtrak, which is functional although not exactly wildly successful.

UK government bailed out Rolls-Royce by nationalising it, turned it into a successful company, and then privatised it again 18 years later(there's a common argument made that perhaps it was nationalised for too long, but the effect was certainly positive).

Post by dasil003 » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 6:19 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #11

orthecreedence wrote: post #4

If we give bail outs, we should get stock/control. End of story. All bailed out companies should be nationalized to some extent, depending on the value of their stock and how much the government buys. A board/council of nationally elected representatives should manage whatever share of these companies the government owns. It's time the citizens started getting a return on their tax dollars if they're being used for p…

>All bailed out companies should be nationalized to some extent Is there an example of nationalized company that operates in free market and still manages to turn a profit for the investors(citizens). I wouldn't make an investment in usps or amtrak as a citizen with profit motive as a tax payer.

Post by Scoundreller » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 6:22 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #51

Consultant32452 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We lost $11 billion according to this article. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-gm-treasury/u-s-gov...

We made a profit overall in the program that included GM/AIG's bailouts. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/20/business/us-signals-end-o... > In all, through TARP and other efforts, taxpayers injected $426.35 billion into banks and auto companies. The sale of stock and interest payments brought in $441.7 billion.

Post by dominotw » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 6:24 PM UTC

dasil003 wrote: post #56

dominotw wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All bailed out companies should be nationalized to some extent Is there an example of nationalized company that operates in free market and still manages to turn a profit for the investors(citizens). I wouldn't make an investment in usps or amtrak as a citizen with profit motive as a tax payer.

This line of thinking is the worst sort of ideological nonsense: the tax payers are bailing out a failed company with their own money, but because that bailout is administered by the government, which is, a priori, hopelessly inefficient, we dare not ask for anything in return lest the government really screw things up? In case you didn't notice, these companies are already failed, and we're bailing them out. You're…