The government is failing badly at every level. That's more clear now than ever. Serious question: Why would you want to give them more to fail at?
America's bailed-out airlines are not 'playing fair' with customers
21–30 of 171 posts
Re: America's bailed-out airlines are not 'playing fair' with customers
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Serious question: do we have historical comparisons, can we refer to instances where nationalizing in the wake of a bailout led to positive results? The one comparable I can think of in the US is Amtrak, which is functional although not exactly wildly successful.
This is a bad faith question. The real question is, “Why were the airlines so poorly equipped to handle a cataclysmic event when the last one was only 19 years ago?” The answer is short term profitability. And the follow up question is, “Why would ANYONE bail any for-profit company out to the benefit of the shareholders only, ever?”
How could an airline company possibly be equipped to handle this kind of situation?
If you want to be competitive on the market you need to lower costs and cut down on margins. You can't just have a big pile of money lying around "in case all flight is halted for a few weeks/months"
Re: America's bailed-out airlines are not 'playing fair' with customers
#23Serious question: does anyone actually expect the government (at least the current administration, of the US) to do what's right for the little guy?
Lucky for you, this crisis is going to last until the next administration (which might be the same as this one, depending on election results).
So far we've got $1200 checks going to all the little guys and $500 to their little children.
Re: America's bailed-out airlines are not 'playing fair' with customers
#24If we give bail outs, we should get stock/control. End of story. All bailed out companies should be nationalized to some extent, depending on the value of their stock and how much the government buys. A board/council of nationally elected representatives should manage whatever share of these companies the government owns. It's time the citizens started getting a return on their tax dollars if they're being used for p…
>All bailed out companies should be nationalized to some extent Is there an example of nationalized company that operates in free market and still manages to turn a profit for the investors(citizens). I wouldn't make an investment in usps or amtrak as a citizen with profit motive as a tax payer.
Equinor (formerly Statoil) does fairly well for Norway.
Re: America's bailed-out airlines are not 'playing fair' with customers
#25If we give bail outs, we should get stock/control. End of story. All bailed out companies should be nationalized to some extent, depending on the value of their stock and how much the government buys. A board/council of nationally elected representatives should manage whatever share of these companies the government owns. It's time the citizens started getting a return on their tax dollars if they're being used for p…
Serious question: do we have historical comparisons, can we refer to instances where nationalizing in the wake of a bailout led to positive results? The one comparable I can think of in the US is Amtrak, which is functional although not exactly wildly successful.
UK government bailed out Rolls-Royce by nationalising it, turned it into a successful company, and then privatised it again 18 years later(there's a common argument made that perhaps it was nationalised for too long, but the effect was certainly positive).
Re: America's bailed-out airlines are not 'playing fair' with customers
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Serious question: do we have historical comparisons, can we refer to instances where nationalizing in the wake of a bailout led to positive results? The one comparable I can think of in the US is Amtrak, which is functional although not exactly wildly successful.
This is why I suggest operating the companies via a democratically-elected board. If the management sucks, vote them out.
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Re: America's bailed-out airlines are not 'playing fair' with customers
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a bad faith question. The real question is, “Why were the airlines so poorly equipped to handle a cataclysmic event when the last one was only 19 years ago?” The answer is short term profitability. And the follow up question is, “Why would ANYONE bail any for-profit company out to the benefit of the shareholders only, ever?”
How could an airline company possibly be equipped to handle this kind of situation? If you want to be competitive on the market you need to lower costs and cut down on margins. You can't just have a big pile of money lying around "in case all flight is halted for a few weeks/months"
Or, legislation could be used to ensure everyone has to have that big pile of money / mitigation strategies present, so that they won't get cut out by competitive pressure.
(And then the hard trick is ensuring the next folks in office won't dismantle that legislation to make some cash on the side.)
Re: America's bailed-out airlines are not 'playing fair' with customers
#28If we give bail outs, we should get stock/control. End of story. All bailed out companies should be nationalized to some extent, depending on the value of their stock and how much the government buys. A board/council of nationally elected representatives should manage whatever share of these companies the government owns. It's time the citizens started getting a return on their tax dollars if they're being used for p…
Serious question: do we have historical comparisons, can we refer to instances where nationalizing in the wake of a bailout led to positive results? The one comparable I can think of in the US is Amtrak, which is functional although not exactly wildly successful.
GM and AIG are two examples from the last financial crisis. Both went back into private hands.
Re: America's bailed-out airlines are not 'playing fair' with customers
#29The government is failing badly at every level. That's more clear now than ever. Serious question: Why would you want to give them more to fail at?
>The government is failing badly at every level.
Just the executive branch, which was elected by a certain segment of our society.
Thankfully (hopefully) it only lasts 4 years, and not 20.
Re: America's bailed-out airlines are not 'playing fair' with customers
#30If we give bail outs, we should get stock/control. End of story. All bailed out companies should be nationalized to some extent, depending on the value of their stock and how much the government buys. A board/council of nationally elected representatives should manage whatever share of these companies the government owns. It's time the citizens started getting a return on their tax dollars if they're being used for p…
Serious question: do we have historical comparisons, can we refer to instances where nationalizing in the wake of a bailout led to positive results? The one comparable I can think of in the US is Amtrak, which is functional although not exactly wildly successful.
Doesn't Norway own the majority of their oil company?