I talked with the mayor of Los Altos Hills, CA yesterday where I advocated for a municipal fiber ISP. It seems crazy to me that in Silicon Valley, and specifically in one of its richest towns, that broadband is not available to every residence. She makes a good point: the residents don't care. Her argument is that ~20 mbps DSL is good enough for the elderly population. And further - that for those who find that inade…
I'm hopeful for that satellite internet from SpaceX to solve availability.
The internet should be a public utility
31–40 of 265 posts
Re: The internet should be a public utility
#32I’m generally a libertarian, anti-bureaucracy type, but this is an issue I align with. Having the government provide the bulk of last mile dumb fiber seems to be the best way to move forward internet speeds. Opponents always point towards the remarkable improvements in wireless internet speed, but those of us who understand the technology know it’s not a replacement for fiber. Why compare simple, vacuum packed downlo…
There are lots of people who would like to be ISPs (including municipalities) who simply aren't allowed to be, because the regulators and the large national ISPs have conspired to pass lots of regulation that outlaws any real competition. It's absolutely shameful.
https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/1/8530403/chattanooga-comcas...
Re: The internet should be a public utility
#33My question is, what would be the impact on the following areas if the internet was public utility? 1) security/encryption 2) bandwidth distribution 3) content freedom 4) Governance rules (federal gov?)
1) Probably about the same. I suspect law enforcement might end up with “easier” access (mostly because inter agency processes will be put in place) but the regulated ISP will be less able to do silly things like MITM 404 responses to thier search engine/ad page. Intel is a big question mark, but heck, it seems like they have just about everything already. 2) Better for underserved communities, possibly worse in the long term for everyone else. The closest existing utility, electricity, hasn’t seen anywhere near the same rate of change in consumption as bandwidth has. Once the utility level requirement is set for bandwidth it’s going to be hard to increase. 3) probably better, first amendment protection would still apply to individuals, while the quasi government status off utilities would make it harder for them to argue for any sort of “editorial control.” 4) Utilities are typically regulated at the state or local level. My local water district has to adhere to federal laws, but most of their governance is very local
Re: The internet should be a public utility
#34My question is, what would be the impact on the following areas if the internet was public utility? 1) security/encryption 2) bandwidth distribution 3) content freedom 4) Governance rules (federal gov?)
What if the infrastructure was government owned but you bought service through a reseller. This is the US cell phone model for many carriers. Also old school AOL / dial-up style. Perhaps your reseller provides your modem/router (or states what modems(/+router) you can configure for their service)
Want everything managed for you? Get AOL. They send you a box, it had their configurations and management tools so they can monitor your traffic and ensure good service... Read your emails, whatever. You had a thousand options and trusted this provider.
Want a security focused provider? Sign up for one that provides a setup that VPNs traffic to your specification. You had 30 different options here, so you pick the right balance for you.
Want to trust the government and just pass through? Will that might not be allowed... But someone will probably provide you an option for bare minimum pricing.
With these options, perhaps you get your government provided service, but if there's issues you get support through that private entity that escalates issues or perhaps does doorstop support (or remote testing) and then they escalate to government-run infrastructure system. If the government needs work done, they contract out work to a vendor appropriate for the type of work and area of the service request (assuming the issues is outside the home.. inside the home is on your reseller).
NOT saying this is the way to go, just that this is an option for public-private partnership.
With this style of service, the fiber will probably have issues, but how often does a bridge actually collapse and not get cleaned up/ fixed? Currently we play hot potato with decaying lines, selling the infrastructure praying they're not holding the asset when it actually fails massively.
In response to your questions: 1) if you want security/encryption, this model could allow you to get that by your ISP through the in-home equipment. 2) let people buy bandwidth plans, your ISP marks it up for their service and support fee, and passes it to you. Government could adjust what's available based on the capacity of the area/infrastructure with the same options being available regardless of your ISP. If you're a business and you need more than what a single fiber line can provide, perhaps offer an additional service to run additional lines with additional costs. 3) traffic should be encrypted, so government can't see in the first place, but when if it wasn't.. if you're accessing illegal material they should have just cause.. and should then make a request to your ISP (much like they do to access your cell phone records). Pick an ISP that meets your morals/concerns. 4) not sure exactly what your mean here.. but given shouldn't be directly serving people. They have the mailmen driving to your house delivering packets hopefully in sealed safes... But your service provider (easy mode) or your personal hardware (advanced) handles opening the safe.
Again, this is a 30 minute free flowing thought. Not at all a proposal... Just an idea.
Re: The internet should be a public utility
#35Need to start naming and shaming any public figures, companies, and politicians who say otherwise. That’s the only way to fight against the corporate takeover attempt.
> corporate takeover attempt Sadly, I think the takeover has happened already, and there's not enough incentive for public figures, companies, and politicians to push for deprivatization. I agree with the article that the Internet should be a public utility, like water or electricity.
Re: The internet should be a public utility
#36In order for anything useful to happen in our society, we have to vote. It is now abundantly clear which party values what, and for whom. If we would rather vote based on 'abortion preventing our souls from partying with Jesus in heaven' instead of 'municipal broadband for all residents as a public utility', then we're going to continue to complain about this for another 50 years and beyond. The problem is that sayin…
If that were true, it'd be great. But which is the party that supports municipal broadband for all residents as a public utility? California has a Democratic governor, Democratic legislature, and in the most populous areas Democratic local government, and yet no municipal broadband.
There's a map here of which state legislatures have passed restrictions on municipal broadband, and it seems pretty idiosyncratic relative to blue/red politics: https://broadbandnow.com/report/municipal-broadband-roadbloc... E.g. WV, OH, IN, IL, KY, GA, NM, VT are friendly to it, while WA, OR, TX, CO, AL, PA, FL, MA are unfriendly.
Re: The internet should be a public utility
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
A program that isn’t available to everyone and is routinely under fire. It also doesn’t solve the underlying problem, but instead throws money at the companies exacerbating it for profit. Broadly available, competitive broadband is the answer.
> It also doesn’t solve the underlying problem, but instead throws money at the companies exacerbating it for profit Quite similar to Obama's approach to healthcare, what a coincidence! :-)
Re: The internet should be a public utility
#38I talked with the mayor of Los Altos Hills, CA yesterday where I advocated for a municipal fiber ISP. It seems crazy to me that in Silicon Valley, and specifically in one of its richest towns, that broadband is not available to every residence. She makes a good point: the residents don't care. Her argument is that ~20 mbps DSL is good enough for the elderly population. And further - that for those who find that inade…
Personally, I think we should at least look at the local loop as a natural monopoly. Just like the city is expected to own and maintain the road to your house, it should own and maintain the digital equivalent. From your house to the POP, it's city fiber. From the POP onward, sure, let that be run commercially, with a free minimum tier, say 5 mb/s. If you want anything more, you can contract with any ISP who has a presence in your POP. That way we get both a truly competitive marketplace and universal access.
Re: The internet should be a public utility
#39I talked with the mayor of Los Altos Hills, CA yesterday where I advocated for a municipal fiber ISP. It seems crazy to me that in Silicon Valley, and specifically in one of its richest towns, that broadband is not available to every residence. She makes a good point: the residents don't care. Her argument is that ~20 mbps DSL is good enough for the elderly population. And further - that for those who find that inade…
> Her argument is that ~20 mbps DSL is good enough that is insane. How having no internet is fine because 20mbps is enough? That could be a good argument against fiber (which i also think is overkill, decent cooper is lower maintenance and with enough repeaters as good as) but it is hardly an argument against it being available to all as a public utility. > And, by the way, the FCC thinks I have a dozen options for b…
I don't know whether they were corrupt, but Tom Wheeler did a fantastic job from a consumer rights & Internet health perspective during the Obama admin. Most notably he implemented Title II regulations to enforce net neutrality (since undone by a Republican), but also supported municipal broadband (since undone by a Republican), fought against several huge communication company mergers (since undone by a Republican), and supported content providers against ISPs charging interconnection fees.
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/03/how-a...
Re: The internet should be a public utility
#40I'm not sure that I want the government in a position to be a single point of control for which websites I can or cannot access.
Absolutely nothing about public internet in any way implies anything even remotely related to your strawman argument.
Why not? If the government has a monopoly on internet access, it becomes easier for voters to call for certain sites being blocked or certain sorts of traffic be monitored and/or intercepted.