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Interview with German Ventilator Manufacturer

spiegel.de

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Re: Interview with German Ventilator Manufacturer

#21

Post by dillonmckay »

hef19898 wrote: post #3
adrianN wrote: post #2

It would be nice if we could at least provide everybody with simple surgical masks. It would surely help flatten the curve a lot if we could make masks in public mandatory. As far as I understand it those are basically just paper and a nose clip. They should be very simple to mass manufacture.

The main problem I see regarding masks is, besides price, distribution. Now that Chinese manufacturers are running again, they are producing 24/7. Sure prices are way higher than before. But the masks are there. Problem is, Chinese suppliers sell FOB, meaning export cleared delivered to a (air)port terminal in China. Customers in Germany want to buy DDP (import cleared and delivered a specified location in Germany).…

My concern is the rush to acquire PPE, rules be damned, a decent amount of counterfeit masks will make it into circulation, and will provide a false sense of security.

Re: Interview with German Ventilator Manufacturer

#22

Post by oaiey »

agumonkey wrote: post #11
pyb wrote: post #6

"I spoke with Daimler over the weekend. They would also like to help. But it’s unfortunately not so simple..." It would be interesting to hear more precisely why. We've heard more than a few well-respected industrialists essentially saying "Scaling up ventilator production ? How hard could it be?" Edit. Of course I am not suggesting that car assembly lines are suitable to build ventilator parts. That's clearly not wh…

Someone on reddit makes daily summaries for r/france and reports a lot of ~stupid issues blocking help. - health laws forbidding veterinarians to help (animal standard != human standard) - companies not allowed to help because some administrative formality Many systems are not ready to switch gears fast in times of crisis.

The FDA is already relaxing administrative control and vets will have their time coming.

However, project management and engineering setup takes a long time.

Re: Interview with German Ventilator Manufacturer

#24

Post by dr_dshiv »

jsilence wrote: post #7

Home made masks are not as good as professional masks, but they have some efficiency (> 70%). https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525804_Testing_t...

Way better. Two dishtowels equals n95: https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-...

Re: Interview with German Ventilator Manufacturer

#25

Post by lazyjones »

Perhaps intravenous oxygen supply could be a way to treat those who are't getting a ventilator due to shortages?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27910706

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/247295

Not a physician, but sounds like a more rapidly scalable method - if it works.

Re: Interview with German Ventilator Manufacturer

#26

Post by onetimemanytime »

hef19898 wrote: post #3
adrianN wrote: post #2

It would be nice if we could at least provide everybody with simple surgical masks. It would surely help flatten the curve a lot if we could make masks in public mandatory. As far as I understand it those are basically just paper and a nose clip. They should be very simple to mass manufacture.

The main problem I see regarding masks is, besides price, distribution. Now that Chinese manufacturers are running again, they are producing 24/7. Sure prices are way higher than before. But the masks are there. Problem is, Chinese suppliers sell FOB, meaning export cleared delivered to a (air)port terminal in China. Customers in Germany want to buy DDP (import cleared and delivered a specified location in Germany).…

Nothing money or waivers cannot solve, as long as masks are being made and China allows export. I doubt Germany, USA, Italy etc care about chartering dozens of planes just for that.

Re: Interview with German Ventilator Manufacturer

#27

Post by adrianN »

dillonmckay wrote: post #21
hef19898 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem I see regarding masks is, besides price, distribution. Now that Chinese manufacturers are running again, they are producing 24/7. Sure prices are way higher than before. But the masks are there. Problem is, Chinese suppliers sell FOB, meaning export cleared delivered to a (air)port terminal in China. Customers in Germany want to buy DDP (import cleared and delivered a specified location in Germany).…

My concern is the rush to acquire PPE, rules be damned, a decent amount of counterfeit masks will make it into circulation, and will provide a false sense of security.

We're not talking about FFP2/3 masks here, but simple masks that mostly prevent droplets produced by the wearer from spreading as far and slightly reduce the probability of inhaling the larger ones other people produce. Basically anything that covers mouth and nose.

Re: Interview with German Ventilator Manufacturer

#28

Post by netsharc »

tyingq wrote: post #15
hef19898 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem I see regarding masks is, besides price, distribution. Now that Chinese manufacturers are running again, they are producing 24/7. Sure prices are way higher than before. But the masks are there. Problem is, Chinese suppliers sell FOB, meaning export cleared delivered to a (air)port terminal in China. Customers in Germany want to buy DDP (import cleared and delivered a specified location in Germany).…

"The main problem I see regarding masks is, besides price, distribution." There's a crap ton of unused aircraft right now. You would just need heads of state to direct the airlines to fulfill that need, simplify clearance, customs, etc. Treat it like wartime.

Keep reading beyond the 1st sentence, he's describing bureaucracy problems, not transport problems.

Re: Interview with German Ventilator Manufacturer

#29

Post by [deleted] »

eternalban wrote: post #8
pyb wrote: post #6

"I spoke with Daimler over the weekend. They would also like to help. But it’s unfortunately not so simple..." It would be interesting to hear more precisely why. We've heard more than a few well-respected industrialists essentially saying "Scaling up ventilator production ? How hard could it be?" Edit. Of course I am not suggesting that car assembly lines are suitable to build ventilator parts. That's clearly not wh…

Precisely what I was looking for in the article as well. Outside of logistic planning snafus, parts situation, and post production operator issues, it was silent as to why we can not scale up cranking out these machines.

[deleted]

Re: Interview with German Ventilator Manufacturer

#30

Post by ThePhysicist »

pyb wrote: post #6

"I spoke with Daimler over the weekend. They would also like to help. But it’s unfortunately not so simple..." It would be interesting to hear more precisely why. We've heard more than a few well-respected industrialists essentially saying "Scaling up ventilator production ? How hard could it be?" Edit. Of course I am not suggesting that car assembly lines are suitable to build ventilator parts. That's clearly not wh…

Machines that produce raw materials for cars, like frames, can't simply be repurposed to produce ventilator frames (to my knowledge) as the tools that are attached to the machines (e.g. the stencils) are specialized, intricate parts themselves, so designing one for a new task can take years.

The assembly lines / workstations also look very different, in general. You can see in the picture how the ventilators are assembled, it's not a factory line but more a workshop.

Then you have all the supply chain issues that the article discussed. Companies like Dräger have been optimizing their supply chains and processes for literally over 100 years (the company was founded in 1889), so to think another company could just replicate all of that within a few months or weeks is unrealistic. Even with Dräger's help this would be challenging, as building up a new factory location usually takes several years as well.

I think we have a strong bias to think that all problems can be solved with technology or engineering. Some need to be solved on a social and political level though, at least initially as technological developments take time. For Covid-19 we need to change our behavior now to allow technology to catch up.

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