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Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

andregarzia.com

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Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#911

Post by b1tr0t »

diggan wrote: post #867
davvolun wrote: post #853

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to note that you specifically mentioned Microsoft working with open source hackers in this comment saying that the ship has long since sailed on Chrome/Google contributing to the open web. I don't know, never say never I guess. I'm certainly not going to defend Google's track record on openness and privacy -- there have been, under even the most generous of interpretations, huge missteps, and I don't think…

I was thinking about a particular announcement where Mozilla announcing that they are working with Microsoft on MDN. Color me surprised when I discovered that also Google is mentioned there! Here is the announcement: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/10/18/mozilla-brings-micr... Reading that announcement makes b1tr0t's statement "We've started to consolidate docs under web.dev" even worse, as they previously said th…

Our team actively contributes to MDN. Web.dev is not an MDN replacement, it's a channel for guides & other supporting documentation.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#912

Post by b1tr0t »

diggan wrote: post #868
efraim wrote: post #866

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't they already do that? They are part of the MDN Product Advisory Board since 2017. Blog post of the announcement: https://blog.chromium.org/2017/10/building-unified-documenta...

The statement from b1tr0t directly refute that Google is contributing to MDN, as they put it: "Fully agree with you that docs are all over the place. We've started to consolidate docs under web.dev". As far as I know, web.dev is not MDN and has nothing to do with MDN.

Mentioned in another comment, but to be clear, our team contributes to MDN, and will continue to do so.

Web.dev is not an MDN replacement.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#913

Post by judah »

joosters wrote: post #647
Silhouette wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would no-one be paying for a PWA? There are countless paid-for services available via web apps. Providing even a free native app via the App Store to access a service with a subscription model becomes a very risky proposition given Apple's rules, though.

Can you give a few examples of paid-for PWAs? Sure there are websites that are paid-for, but I've never seen a paid-for PWA.

Financial Times[0] is a PWA and with a paid service option.

[0]: http://app.ft.com/

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#914

Post by scarface74 »

the_gipsy wrote: post #893
scarface74 wrote: post #874

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet dozens on companies have had successful businesses not doing in app purchases - like Amazon.

Yeah big players get an exception - not a good example.

ACloudGuru does not allow you to pay for subscriptions via in app purchases, Udemy allows both. A company can decide whether it is right for their business model to allow in app purchases exclusively or along side their own payment options.

Hulu for instance allows in app purchases for the regular Hulu service but not Hulu Live

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#915

Post by dzhiurgis »

Gaelan wrote: post #686
dzhiurgis wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacOS Safari autoplays YouTube videos with now way to disable...

Interesting. I can tell Safari to not autoplay videos on YouTube in its preferences, but that doesn't seem to do anything. Seems more like a bug on Safari's part and/or workaround on Google's part than anything deliberate.

You mean Safari team accidentally forgot to test a video feature on a largest video website?

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#916

Post by hpen »

leadingthenet wrote: post #796
ethbro wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Value to whom?

To me, as a user of the device. Native apps can be a joy to use, websites almost never are.

Sure, but this is usually because of UX reasons and less because of performance or capabilities

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#917

Post by lern_too_spel »

soapdog wrote: post #690
jamiesonbecker wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that OP is saying it would be preferable to have blink-everywhere than to have a deliberately-crippled Apple web browser with all other choices banned.

I'm the OP and I am a Mozilla volunteer. I prefer a web with many engines, I want it to have WebKit, Blink, Gecko and more.

Then you also prefer not to have those options banned.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#918

Post by lern_too_spel »

millstone wrote: post #740
jamiesonbecker wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. There is no choice with IOS: you choose the same WebKit that they've chosen, or Safari. One engine and version, or one browser using that one engine.

Android is a web monoculture too. Non-Blink browsers on Android are at <1%.

In what reality-distortioned world is that worse than 0%? Also, several of those Blink-based browsers include additional non-Google-approved features, like Mozilla's own Firefox Focus, Samsung Browser, Edge, and Brave. I'd hardly call that a monoculture just because they share the same lineage.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#919

Post by admax88q »

jchw wrote: post #901
admax88q wrote: post #899

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly, if my data really matters, I don’t want it to be stored only in a single place. That's all well and good except when you lose your emails that your wrote on the plane and didn't get a chance to send yet. I'm not arguing that you should _never_ synchronize the data off the phone, but where I store data on my phone should be as robust as possible. So far I have never had my phone delete an application I had…

Web apps are unreliable for sure, but I think that is where PWAs should come in. The problem is there’s just not a ton of them today, and parity just isn’t there. That having been said, I’ve never lost local storage on a PWA in any OS so far... Also I am not saying programs and browsers should not make a best effort to reliably persist data locally... just that robust local storage only really needs to be so robust,…

I've lost localStorage on PWAs before. But that was a number of years ago when I was still bothering to develop them. I also lost data in appcache repeatedly, then service workers came along to fix that, because the browser vendors' strategy for broken implementations is to deprecate them with an even more complex standard that they will never finish. Then they can close your bugs against the old standard that they never finished implementing as WONTFIX and everyone gets a promotion for shipping.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#920

Post by TheKarateKid »

Gaelan wrote: post #686
dzhiurgis wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacOS Safari autoplays YouTube videos with now way to disable...

Interesting. I can tell Safari to not autoplay videos on YouTube in its preferences, but that doesn't seem to do anything. Seems more like a bug on Safari's part and/or workaround on Google's part than anything deliberate.

Safari uses some sort of algorithm to determine whether you actually want the autoplay to happen.

For example I've noticed that if you play a video on a website during that session, it will allow autoplay from scripts on that page (not 3rd party) for the rest of that session. Same for unmuting an autoplaying video.

This is all undocumented though and through personal observations, as Apple seemed to stop posting Safari documentation years ago.

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