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Show HN: Introvert – Generative artwork to keep you off your phone

iamintrovert.co

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Re: Show HN: Introvert – Generative artwork to keep you off your phone

#41

Post by Kalium »

sonicggg wrote: post #35
Funes- wrote: post #15

I don't think setting up a timer on the very device that is distracting you will significantly help you stay away from it, especially on psychological terms. I reckon it will make you dependent on your phone as well, but in a different sense. In my opinion, the development of deeply-rooted discipline and self-control must primarily--even exclusively--come from one's will, at all times and at all levels, in order to b…

That's my argument against two - factor authentication, which is spreading like herpes across workplaces. I like having my phone off and far from me during work hours, but 2FA made it impossible.

The security gains of multi-factor authentication are significant. They are so large that choosing to forego them might at this point in time be deemed negligence. That said, you're absolutely correct that it's wildly unreasonable that so many of them require you to make use of your personal phone - which you are wisely and responsibly trying to ignore

Fortunately, there are a lot of good ways to do 2FA that don't rely on your personal phone! A second device, physical RSA tokens, and U2F keys are all viable options that let you both be responsible by ignoring your phone and be safer. Some password managers will also do your TOTP code generation.

Re: Show HN: Introvert – Generative artwork to keep you off your phone

#42

Post by cercatrova »

sonicggg wrote: post #35
Funes- wrote: post #15

I don't think setting up a timer on the very device that is distracting you will significantly help you stay away from it, especially on psychological terms. I reckon it will make you dependent on your phone as well, but in a different sense. In my opinion, the development of deeply-rooted discipline and self-control must primarily--even exclusively--come from one's will, at all times and at all levels, in order to b…

That's my argument against two - factor authentication, which is spreading like herpes across workplaces. I like having my phone off and far from me during work hours, but 2FA made it impossible.

Could you run an emulator that uses an authenticator app? Or you could get a physical authenticator fob perhaps.

Re: Show HN: Introvert – Generative artwork to keep you off your phone

#43

Post by Funes- »

keenmaster wrote: post #25
Funes- wrote: post #15

I don't think setting up a timer on the very device that is distracting you will significantly help you stay away from it, especially on psychological terms. I reckon it will make you dependent on your phone as well, but in a different sense. In my opinion, the development of deeply-rooted discipline and self-control must primarily--even exclusively--come from one's will, at all times and at all levels, in order to b…

Was Odysseus a fool for tying himself to a mast to avoid the temptation of the sirens? An underrated element of self-control is designing your environment to achieve the outcomes you want.

You do realize that you're comparing the literally insurmountable chant of a fictional, fantastic entity to something that can be overcome, right? I know it's an analogy, but I don't think it can possibly apply here.

Of course adding friction to bad habits is generally going to make it harder for you to indulge in them, the same way that removing friction can make it easier to engage in healthy habits. Nonetheless, the primary element of self-control must always come from oneself, in the moment. I know, since I've gone out of my way to remove many "blocking" systems too many times.

Re: Show HN: Introvert – Generative artwork to keep you off your phone

#44

Post by callmeed »

I don't get what introvert has to do with focus.

Besides that, if you really need to stay off your phone, consider a "distraction free" phone as outlined in the book Make Time by Jake Knapp. Its a solid book but you can also glean that part of it from his blog:

https://medium.com/make-time/six-years-with-a-distraction-fr...

His version might be extreme for some. At the very least disable all notifications (save maybe texts from your SO/children) and delete social media apps.

Re: Show HN: Introvert – Generative artwork to keep you off your phone

#45

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

swampthing wrote: post #6

Just curious, why is this named “Introvert”? Is it that this app is thought to be more appealing to introverts?

I took it as instead of texting, or checking social media, you're alone with your own thoughts.

For people who want something to do with their phone when they're bored, but hate social stuff.

Re: Show HN: Introvert – Generative artwork to keep you off your phone

#46

Post by airstrike »

afita wrote: post #21

I use Forest ( https://www.forestapp.cc/ ) which does something similar: plants virtual trees (you can pay to plant real ones too) for every time interval when you stayed focused. I will also try this one when the Android version appears. The generative artwork makes it very compelling.

> plants virtual trees (you can pay to plant real ones too) for every time interval when you stayed focused.

One of my many pet-projects-I'll-never-implement is creating one of these addicting Facebook-driven social games like Farmville (I have no idea what it's modern equivalent is) and instead of distributing profit from ad revenue / in-app purchases, donate all of it to an NGO that does IRL whatever people are doing online. So if planting an in-game tree generates $0.02 in profit from ad revenue / in-app purchases (after operating expenses, taxes, capex, etc) and planting a tree in real life costs $20, the NGO would plant one real tree after users plant 1,000 online trees

I think it's a killer idea for a socially-conscious app and I think users would feel incentivized to play this over any of the stupid casual online games with no positive real-life implications.

Re: Show HN: Introvert – Generative artwork to keep you off your phone

#47

Post by keenmaster »

Funes- wrote: post #43
keenmaster wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was Odysseus a fool for tying himself to a mast to avoid the temptation of the sirens? An underrated element of self-control is designing your environment to achieve the outcomes you want.

You do realize that you're comparing the literally insurmountable chant of a fictional, fantastic entity to something that can be overcome, right? I know it's an analogy, but I don't think it can possibly apply here. Of course adding friction to bad habits is generally going to make it harder for you to indulge in them, the same way that removing friction can make it easier to engage in healthy habits. Nonetheless, t…

You're right, it's not a perfect analogy. Odysseus had a simple, binary action he could take to avoid the sirens altogether, and that action did not otherwise hinder his journey. You can't say the same about the social & leisure parts of the internet (social media, Netflix, MMOs, etc...). One example: Screen Time on iOS does not completely block the specified websites and apps. It politely suggests that you stop wasting your time. Odysseus had it easy.

One can replace their smartphone with a basic flip phone, but that would forsake all the good uses of the smartphone. This is where we get into the nature of free will. How much free will does the average person really have in the face of these addicting platforms? They're all designed specifically to preempt your self-control. Moreover, because they drove so many people to abandon their self-control, they normalized binging. It is part of our cultural fabric. The sirens aren't alien mermaids, they're our friends.

People need the freedom to say No. No, I don't need any more than 30 minutes of social media a day. No, I don't ever want to watch more than 1 episode per day during the workweek on Netflix. Etc... These commitments need to be binding, and the marginal cost of dropping them should be higher than the marginal benefit in all but the most legitimate scenarios. You're free to say "no" now, but it's an empty commitment without technological controls that do not currently exist.

My final thought relates to the availability bias. Leisure is more available than ever. Almost anything you want is a tap away. In contrast, productivity goals are notoriously unavailable. Sure, you can break your work into tiny steps, but those steps become increasingly abstract and divorced from the end result, which may nonetheless be 6 months away. You'll also consistently underestimate the damage, length, and frequency of "one more break" and overestimate your ability to reach that goal in 6 months at your current pace (overconfidence effect). We have a lot to gain from making leisure less attainable and productivity more tangible.

Re: Show HN: Introvert – Generative artwork to keep you off your phone

#48

Post by bcyn »

airstrike wrote: post #46
afita wrote: post #21

I use Forest ( https://www.forestapp.cc/ ) which does something similar: plants virtual trees (you can pay to plant real ones too) for every time interval when you stayed focused. I will also try this one when the Android version appears. The generative artwork makes it very compelling.

> plants virtual trees (you can pay to plant real ones too) for every time interval when you stayed focused. One of my many pet-projects-I'll-never-implement is creating one of these addicting Facebook-driven social games like Farmville (I have no idea what it's modern equivalent is) and instead of distributing profit from ad revenue / in-app purchases, donate all of it to an NGO that does IRL whatever people are doi…

> I think users would feel incentivized to play this over any of the stupid casual online games with no positive real-life implications

With all due respect, I think this is wrong. People play games that are fun, regardless of real-life implications. If you can make a fun game that is socially-conscious, more power to you. But socially-conscious by itself does not make a killer game.

Re: Show HN: Introvert – Generative artwork to keep you off your phone

#49

Post by virgil_disgr4ce »

ilyayudanov wrote: post #14

Hey! Thank you for your interest and comments! Just a bit of background thinking. The app named Introvert is a generative artwork aimed to help you stay off your phone. Right now we´re being asked to lead a sedentary life (for the sake of others and our own wellbeing). Only the mind is allowed to wonder. I wish Introvert can help us lead a focused everyday where mindful practise will direct us to make the most of the…

I don't think I understand the use of the word "Introvert." That, to me, has nothing at all to do with focus or attention or lack thereof? I suppose there could be a suggestion of introspection, but that also has nothing to do necessarily with introversion other than the same prefix.
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