$800M to support small businesses and crisis response • Hacker News Board

Re: $800M to support small businesses and crisis response

#11

Post by swalsh » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

thedance wrote: post #2

It's ridiculous that Google has to front a glove and mask company the working capital and donate the product to the CDC. That's what the government is supposed to do. The federal government should be providing interest-free working capital and guaranteeing the sale of every glove and mask anyone can produce.

I have at times worried this crisis could be used to cement our transition to a Corporatocacy. There has been a huge number of roles that the government SHOULD be performing in at least a partnership that appear to be simply being fulfilled by private corporations. On one hand, while i'm glad to see some real leadership, I worry about the long term ramifications.

Re: $800M to support small businesses and crisis response

#12

Post by samstave » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 5:43 PM UTC

thedance wrote: post #2

It's ridiculous that Google has to front a glove and mask company the working capital and donate the product to the CDC. That's what the government is supposed to do. The federal government should be providing interest-free working capital and guaranteeing the sale of every glove and mask anyone can produce.

How much in taxes has Google avoided over the years???

Thats the actual funding the Government was Already supposed to have (and then be responsible for using correctly) to do this.

So, in my opinion, the Government (read: the fucking citizens of the country) should demand fealty payments from ALL the companies that were under-paying taxes.

All companies, who are considered "corp=people" should be taken to task and be required to PAY rather than get a bailout.

Have you noticed the marketing push by Verizon of late?

That company, for whom Ajit is their mole in the .gov, should be just nationalized and turned over. (obviously, this then means that its a 100% surveillance company... so that must be weighed)

Re: $800M to support small businesses and crisis response

#13

Post by blackguardx » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

hueving wrote: post #6

thedance wrote: post #2

It's ridiculous that Google has to front a glove and mask company the working capital and donate the product to the CDC. That's what the government is supposed to do. The federal government should be providing interest-free working capital and guaranteeing the sale of every glove and mask anyone can produce.

>It's ridiculous that Google has to It doesn't have to. This is a choice Google is making on how it wants to conduct charity. >The federal government should be providing interest-free working capital and guaranteeing the sale of every glove and mask Sale at what price? It has to be bounded or else it sounds ripe for fraud (people are monsters). > anyone can produce. So is the loan for anyone that wants it? Or just fo…

I think you are misunderstanding the parent's point. The basic gist is that any glove, mask, and ventilator manufacturer should at the very least get immediate working capital loans/grants from the government to expand production.

Guaranteeing the sale means that the manufacturer will assume no risk for overproduction. The price would be whatever the prevailing market price was before the crisis or maybe with a slight premium.

In essence, the government should remove all business risk for manufacturers of needed equipment.

Re: $800M to support small businesses and crisis response

#14

Post by AaronFriel » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

hueving wrote: post #6

thedance wrote: post #2

It's ridiculous that Google has to front a glove and mask company the working capital and donate the product to the CDC. That's what the government is supposed to do. The federal government should be providing interest-free working capital and guaranteeing the sale of every glove and mask anyone can produce.

>It's ridiculous that Google has to It doesn't have to. This is a choice Google is making on how it wants to conduct charity. >The federal government should be providing interest-free working capital and guaranteeing the sale of every glove and mask Sale at what price? It has to be bounded or else it sounds ripe for fraud (people are monsters). > anyone can produce. So is the loan for anyone that wants it? Or just fo…

The government can, in an emergency like this, set prices. They could set prices at the previous price for bulk PPE and order companies to fulfill it and if they refuse, eminent domain them and sell them to someone who will.

As much as this will annoy civil libertarians, the powers of the state are vast and in emergencies should be used to protect people when justifiable and without harming people. The takings clause will ensure that whatever companies are affected will be monetarily compensated and they have recourse through our courts.

Re: $800M to support small businesses and crisis response

#15

Post by tinalumfoil » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

thedance wrote: post #2

It's ridiculous that Google has to front a glove and mask company the working capital and donate the product to the CDC. That's what the government is supposed to do. The federal government should be providing interest-free working capital and guaranteeing the sale of every glove and mask anyone can produce.

The House just passed a two trillion dollar relief bill. That's almost 3 times the entire value of alphabet. And much of that's going to obtaining medical supplies. What are you talking about?

Re: $800M to support small businesses and crisis response

#16

Post by ryanmercer » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

hueving wrote: post #8

treyfitty wrote: post #3

Google is helping small businesses by providing Ad credits? Of all things a small business may need, Google thinks Ads are the solution? The response to this crisis has my cynicism and disdain for our system growing every day.

Yep, ad money has suddenly dried up and auction prices have plummeted so might as well give away the ad credits to inflate the auction prices allowing both a higher tax deduction and better looking performance.

You're being downvoted but it wouldn't surprise me if this was discussed while they were coming up with this. While I highly doubt it is their main motivation, I'm sure they've acknowledged it as a benefit.

Re: $800M to support small businesses and crisis response

#17

Post by thedance » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

hueving wrote: post #6

thedance wrote: post #2

It's ridiculous that Google has to front a glove and mask company the working capital and donate the product to the CDC. That's what the government is supposed to do. The federal government should be providing interest-free working capital and guaranteeing the sale of every glove and mask anyone can produce.

>It's ridiculous that Google has to It doesn't have to. This is a choice Google is making on how it wants to conduct charity. >The federal government should be providing interest-free working capital and guaranteeing the sale of every glove and mask Sale at what price? It has to be bounded or else it sounds ripe for fraud (people are monsters). > anyone can produce. So is the loan for anyone that wants it? Or just fo…

Oh gosh you're right, I hadn't and nobody else had thought of setting a sensible price before you mentioned it. Thanks for saving the country, internet person!

Look, it's pretty simple. You send a Major General and their staff to every factory that has ever shipped a box of nitrile gloves. You tell them that you will buy, at 150% the normal wholesale price, every glove they can produce for the next year. You provide them with a blank check to buy inputs and secure a labor force. If there is an input they can't get you put the General on the phone with another one who is sitting at the oil refinery or the paper mill or whatever.

Civil defense is 99% logistics. If you can't use your gigantic military apparatus to make stuff, it's useless.

Re: $800M to support small businesses and crisis response

#18

Post by rsweeney21 » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

treyfitty wrote: post #3

Google is helping small businesses by providing Ad credits? Of all things a small business may need, Google thinks Ads are the solution? The response to this crisis has my cynicism and disdain for our system growing every day.

I pay for Google ads to generate leads for my business. We've seen a drop in conversion rate, but we're still generating leads which we really need right now to continue to operate.

The problem is that the cost per lead just went up dramatically. These ad credits will solve that problem for us and allow us to continue to generate leads. This is exactly the kind of help my business needs right now.

Re: $800M to support small businesses and crisis response

#19

Post by throwaway_USD » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

treyfitty wrote: post #3

Google is helping small businesses by providing Ad credits? Of all things a small business may need, Google thinks Ads are the solution? The response to this crisis has my cynicism and disdain for our system growing every day.

>Google thinks Ads are the solution?

No, they see their Ad sales declining, so they are trying to stimulate their own business with this act. "Grants" to new customers so they hopefully become buying customers in the future; loans (nothing like becoming a lender in this economy); and of course grants/loans will just bid up ad prices on existing customers. Not to mention all the major business just highjacked $5.75T from the taxpayers so they will have nothing better to do than waste that on ad buys.

Re: $800M to support small businesses and crisis response

#20

Post by heinrichhartman » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

This is NOT funding:

- $250 million in ad grants ...

- $340 million in Google Ads credits ...

- A pool of $20 million in Google Cloud credits ...

A company that has a Bazillion $ in the bank, has means to really make a difference. This is not.

Edit/Clarification:

The original title was: "$800M funding and grants to support ..". Now they changed it.

I take issue with the claim of providing funding, and all they offer is free ADs. I appreciate that Google is doing _something_. I don't think they have to. I don't think that free ADs is a thing that people need right now.