Is employer-based health insurance a barrier to entrepreneurship? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is employer-based health insurance a barrier to entrepreneurship?

#31

Post by rombus » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 6:39 AM UTC

orangecat wrote: post #14

PixelJ wrote: post #8

Answer: Hell yes. Self-insurance is absurdly expensive while group insurance outside of an employer or credit union is harder to find than a Republican with a conscience. The lie that "Obama-Care kills small businesses and/or jobs" is a smokescreen for the truth: Healthcare reform would free employees from indentured health care servitude and allow small businesses to hire more competitively, creating more jobs.

You're right that employer-based health insurance is idiotic and economically destructive (conservative and libertarian analysts have been saying so for decades), but your blatant partisanship is not helpful. In 2008 John McCain's platform included a migration away from employer coverage by treating benefits as taxable income, while simultaneously granting a refundable tax credit for the purchase of individual insura…

Your blatant partisanship isn't helpful either.

Pretty much every analyst has opposed employer-based health insurance, even though you dishonestly implied that conservative and libertarians were alone in that view.

Secondly, the tax credit was for $5k, which is a joke for anybody who knows what individual policies cost if you aren't in your 20s, or have any troubling medical history.

Thanks for your hypocrisy. Please drive through.

Re: Is employer-based health insurance a barrier to entrepreneurship?

#32

Post by Locke1689 » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 6:43 AM UTC

mdiep wrote: post #17

PixelJ wrote: post #8

Answer: Hell yes. Self-insurance is absurdly expensive while group insurance outside of an employer or credit union is harder to find than a Republican with a conscience. The lie that "Obama-Care kills small businesses and/or jobs" is a smokescreen for the truth: Healthcare reform would free employees from indentured health care servitude and allow small businesses to hire more competitively, creating more jobs.

Okay, I know hating on Republicans is fun, but is that really necessary? Why sow the seeds of discord?

Moreover, this discussion is not helpful nor germane to the topic at hand.

Re: Is employer-based health insurance a barrier to entrepreneurship?

#33

Post by Locke1689 » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 6:44 AM UTC

orangecat wrote: post #14

PixelJ wrote: post #8

Answer: Hell yes. Self-insurance is absurdly expensive while group insurance outside of an employer or credit union is harder to find than a Republican with a conscience. The lie that "Obama-Care kills small businesses and/or jobs" is a smokescreen for the truth: Healthcare reform would free employees from indentured health care servitude and allow small businesses to hire more competitively, creating more jobs.

You're right that employer-based health insurance is idiotic and economically destructive (conservative and libertarian analysts have been saying so for decades), but your blatant partisanship is not helpful. In 2008 John McCain's platform included a migration away from employer coverage by treating benefits as taxable income, while simultaneously granting a refundable tax credit for the purchase of individual insura…

Let's please not have political discussions on HN.

Re: Is employer-based health insurance a barrier to entrepreneurship?

#34

Post by davidw » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 6:47 AM UTC

mdiep wrote: post #17

PixelJ wrote: post #8

Answer: Hell yes. Self-insurance is absurdly expensive while group insurance outside of an employer or credit union is harder to find than a Republican with a conscience. The lie that "Obama-Care kills small businesses and/or jobs" is a smokescreen for the truth: Healthcare reform would free employees from indentured health care servitude and allow small businesses to hire more competitively, creating more jobs.

Okay, I know hating on Republicans is fun, but is that really necessary? Why sow the seeds of discord?

This is precisely why I loathe the political articles so much.

For instance, if I'm not mistaken, patio11, who is a great contributor here, has declared his Republicanness (sorry if that's not accurate), something I'm more or less opposed to in its current form in the US. I might find it fun to chat with him about that in person, but I do not want to get into political discussions with him here. First of all, because he has way more valuable ways to contribute his time in terms of discussing his startup, tech or whatever, and because... why introduce discord about a subject that's off-topic here.

I guess this article is closer to on-topic in that it certainly is pertinent to new startups in the US... but look where it got us already.

Re: Is employer-based health insurance a barrier to entrepreneurship?

#35

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 6:49 AM UTC

gamble wrote: post #24

enjo wrote: post #6

During our initial phases we lost a potential hire that we really wanted because we just couldn't afford to offer health insurance. They ended up taking a job with a similar startup in Toronto. We had our first hire leave primarily because we couldn't offer health insurance. I'm happy that we're in a place that we can offer those benefits now. Getting through those first couple of years was really tough. If my wife d…

I don't want to sound like I'm attacking you, but the fact that you were able to start a company without providing health insurance or a salary sufficient to buy it individually is itself a problem. If your employees got sick, it would be spouses' companies or the public that would shoulder the cost. The drag on entrepreneurialism would significantly heavier if companies and individuals weren't allowed to freeload.

[deleted]

Re: Is employer-based health insurance a barrier to entrepreneurship?

#36

Post by hugh4life » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 6:50 AM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #23

hugh4life wrote: post #19

Yes, but government ran healthcare is not the answer...

What is the answer and is there anywhere in the world that it's currently functioning?

I'm kind of fond of Singapore's health care system...

http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2008/01/singapores_heal....

http://blog.jparsons.net/2009/08/why-singapores-health-care-...

Re: Is employer-based health insurance a barrier to entrepreneurship?

#37

Post by davidw » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 6:50 AM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #23

hugh4life wrote: post #19

Yes, but government ran healthcare is not the answer...

What is the answer and is there anywhere in the world that it's currently functioning?

Anecdotally, the best system I've ever experienced was in Austria, which is some weird mish-mash of public and private which I never fully understood the details of. You have to have health insurance, but those companies are non-profits... or something like that. Here in Italy, it's government run, and suffers a bit from that, at times, although on the other hand, you have complete "peace of mind" in terms of not worrying about losing your job or something and being unable to take your child to the doctor.

Re: Is employer-based health insurance a barrier to entrepreneurship?

#38

Post by bradly » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 6:52 AM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #16

bradly wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health insurance premiums are tax deductible.

Not if you have an employer. The deduction is for self employed people.

Right, sorry. I was speaking in the context of being an entrepreneur. If you are not self-employed, health care costs must clear 7.5% of your AIG before they are deductible.

Re: Is employer-based health insurance a barrier to entrepreneurship?

#39

Post by shirtless_coder » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 6:54 AM UTC

gamble wrote: post #24

enjo wrote: post #6

During our initial phases we lost a potential hire that we really wanted because we just couldn't afford to offer health insurance. They ended up taking a job with a similar startup in Toronto. We had our first hire leave primarily because we couldn't offer health insurance. I'm happy that we're in a place that we can offer those benefits now. Getting through those first couple of years was really tough. If my wife d…

I don't want to sound like I'm attacking you, but the fact that you were able to start a company without providing health insurance or a salary sufficient to buy it individually is itself a problem. If your employees got sick, it would be spouses' companies or the public that would shoulder the cost. The drag on entrepreneurialism would significantly heavier if companies and individuals weren't allowed to freeload.

No one forced the employees of his company to apply. There should not be restrictions on companies like this. I don't even think there should be a minimum wage. If the employees are walking in the door, and asking for a job, then it's their choice whether to take it or not.

When you raise the minimum wage, or require the employer to provide health insurance, you are closing the door on many potential employees and definitely increasing the unemployment rate.

Employees are paid according to their value. If you are making low wages it's either what you're worth, or because you're too stupid to realize you're being exploited.

I for one think people have a right to be either worthless or stupid, and therefore do not think business should be regulated in such a way.

Re: Is employer-based health insurance a barrier to entrepreneurship?

#40

Post by _delirium » Mon, Feb 28, 2011, 6:54 AM UTC

gamble wrote: post #24

enjo wrote: post #6

During our initial phases we lost a potential hire that we really wanted because we just couldn't afford to offer health insurance. They ended up taking a job with a similar startup in Toronto. We had our first hire leave primarily because we couldn't offer health insurance. I'm happy that we're in a place that we can offer those benefits now. Getting through those first couple of years was really tough. If my wife d…

I don't want to sound like I'm attacking you, but the fact that you were able to start a company without providing health insurance or a salary sufficient to buy it individually is itself a problem. If your employees got sick, it would be spouses' companies or the public that would shoulder the cost. The drag on entrepreneurialism would significantly heavier if companies and individuals weren't allowed to freeload.

> The drag on entrepreneurialism would significantly heavier if companies and individuals weren't allowed to freeload.

Measuring that difference is actually the methodology the linked study used; their main source of data was looking at the difference between people who had coverage via a spouse and those who didn't, then attempting to control for confounding variables. In effect people with coverage through a spouse serve as a "freeloaders" control group who are assumed not to suffer the health-insurance drag on entrepreneurship (or at least not to fully suffer it).