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Working at Microsoft – Day to Day Coding
41–50 of 171 posts
Re: Working at Microsoft – Day to Day Coding
#42An assumption? We've been told pretty directly how complicated the process is (often with pride). See the 14 steps which turn a 5 minute code change into a multi-man-month-mammoth: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericlippert/archive/2003/10/28/53298... Or the now infamous Windows Shutdown "crapfest": http://moishelettvin.blogspot.com/2006/11/windows-shutdown-c... There's more. And I have no problem with the author stating ho…
Well, you are confusing "complicated" with "difficult". While this is true in general, automation reduces the difficulty of working with a complicated system.
For instance, the build system is extremely "complicated". But all you really need to do is to make sure your code compiles, you pass all your local tests, and the BVTs, and you are good to go (oh, and a code review; anyone who objects to a code review is probably shouldn't be coding).
When, you, as a developer, satisfy those local conditions, the system automatically works at the global level.
Don't get me wrong, complexity is an evil that I'd rather avoid, but it is a necessary evil for creating systems that are useful in the real world; and it is an evil that can be tamed with automation.
[Full disclosure: as a former MSFT employee, my thoughts are heavily influenced by the company.]
Re: Working at Microsoft – Day to Day Coding
#43The thing here is not about if Microsoft let their developers use all the new shiny technology but the point to stress here is how much percentage everyday does a developer at MS actually codes, I bet it wont be more than 20%. I am so sure of this because being at Amazon since April last year, I havent coded more then 700 lines of code, bulk of which was supporting new features in the already behemoth software. I alw…
That bad at Amazon? I've been at Google for a little over 2 years and have written about 160,000 lines of code for them. (And deleted about 30,000.)
Seems like a lot more than I expected, but just looking through my recent commit history, I wrote 830 lines of code just last week on my 20% project alone, so 1600 lines/week doesn't seem that unreasonable. And here I've been complaining about how I never have time to get any work done...
Re: Working at Microsoft – Day to Day Coding
#44I'm a bit confused by this post. The author seems to celebrate a private office. I strongly prefer open work spaces that you share with others, as do many companies I've worked with/seen. Care to share your opinion? I'm curious...
Different strokes for different folks. And not only that, sometimes people vary in their preferences depending on the context. I like working alone at night most of the time but sometimes a busy coffee shop really does the trick.
Re: Working at Microsoft – Day to Day Coding
#45I turned down Microsoft when they recruited me in college. Wow, what a great decision. Now, I run a software firm where no one has an office, everyone pairs (including owners and interns), we have a /slightly/ better ratio than 1 test per 100 SLOC, etc.
> we have a /slightly/ better ratio than 1 test per 100 SLOC, etc. Has TDD really resulted in this becoming a status symbol? :P
Problem is that all status symbols in the programming world are meaningless, so in the absence of any useful metrics, we latch onto useless ones.
Tests/LOC at least measures something, even if it is imperfect. It's probably better than measuring LOC themselves, which are often a long term cost for the company, not a benefit.
Re: Working at Microsoft – Day to Day Coding
#46An assumption? We've been told pretty directly how complicated the process is (often with pride). See the 14 steps which turn a 5 minute code change into a multi-man-month-mammoth: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericlippert/archive/2003/10/28/53298... Or the now infamous Windows Shutdown "crapfest": http://moishelettvin.blogspot.com/2006/11/windows-shutdown-c... There's more. And I have no problem with the author stating ho…
This blog post is mainly about the tools developers use day-to-day while they're in coding mode. Tools and development processes do tend to be well thought out and efficient at MS.
That's not really related to the organizational dynamics that come into play for planning products and features. That tends to be complicated, involving a lot of people, meetings, and debate. (I'm not defending it, just saying that's how it is.) That 14 steps isn't about a code change; it's about the end-to-end design, implementation, and shipping of a feature, expressed in the most detailed, far-reaching way possible, to make a point about how things operate in a huge organization.
Both points of view are accurate, IMHO. When you're strictly coding, things are pretty efficient. Not too surprisingly, those were the times I enjoyed the most. But it's equally true that at MS, coding is only a small piece of a larger, somewhat slow-moving process. And sure, all that other overhead can get tedious, even exasperating at times. It's just a separate subject from what the OP is writing about here. The coding part is typically quite fun and autonomous.
Re: Working at Microsoft – Day to Day Coding
#47I'm a bit confused by this post. The author seems to celebrate a private office. I strongly prefer open work spaces that you share with others, as do many companies I've worked with/seen. Care to share your opinion? I'm curious...
In my experience open spaces are preferred by those who are less competent and want to bother me all day with questions.
Re: Working at Microsoft – Day to Day Coding
#48I'm a bit confused by this post. The author seems to celebrate a private office. I strongly prefer open work spaces that you share with others, as do many companies I've worked with/seen. Care to share your opinion? I'm curious...
In my experience open spaces are preferred by those who are less competent and want to bother me all day with questions.
You never ask people questions when coding?
Re: Working at Microsoft – Day to Day Coding
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my experience open spaces are preferred by those who are less competent and want to bother me all day with questions.
You never ask people questions when coding?
I am not opposed to all questions. I am opposed to the questions that are typically asked by those who prefer open spaces. I am also not opposed to basic questions asked by those who are new to the field, but I am often asked basic questions by those with 3+ years of experience.
Read a book.
Re: Working at Microsoft – Day to Day Coding
#50If developers always have the fastest machines available, how will they test or care about speed? I hope they have automated benchmarks of common tasks at least. (Although it is obviously good to have things compile as fast as possible.)
I was an intern at msft. they have thousands of machines--consumer grade--constantly running tests.