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How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

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Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#51

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

raaaaraaaa12 wrote: post #37
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read repeatedly (and heard on the radio several times) that wearing a mask if YOU are infected will help protect other people, but if you are not infected then it has no known protective effect ie. is not thought to be any more protective than not wearing one. Do you have any evidence to back up you talk of masks? (And if YOU are infected you should not be out anyway) Edit: I was thinking of non-medical situatio…

Yes that's right even your own DIY face mask protect other people. And that's enough to slow down spreading... You dont know for first ~5-6 days whether you are infected or not. https://www.businessinsider.com/people-are-making-diy-face-m... Don't worry too much about effectiveness of DIY face masks - in few months Respilon and other Czech companies will put on market face masks made from nanomaterials which filters…

Valid rebuttal, thanks.

OK, I think that the mask over your own face is to prevent viral spread in largish water particles caused by coughs and sneezes, not general breathing (I'm not sure general breathing spreads much virus anyway, but I don't know).

So if you are infected and not showing symptoms ie. not coughing/sneezing then arguably the mask is not doing anything.

Arguably not, but we need more data - can anyone comment with sources?

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#52

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

Lewton wrote: post #50
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read repeatedly (and heard on the radio several times) that wearing a mask if YOU are infected will help protect other people, but if you are not infected then it has no known protective effect ie. is not thought to be any more protective than not wearing one. Do you have any evidence to back up you talk of masks? (And if YOU are infected you should not be out anyway) Edit: I was thinking of non-medical situatio…

Seriously. How is it possible to still be ignorant about the (up to) 2 week asymptomatic incubation period? This is the entire reason why the virus is so dangerous! And where did OP mention anything about masks protecting the carrier from infection?

See my other reply. Plus I said "And if YOU are infected you should not be out anyway"

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#53

Post by netsharc »

Freestyler_3 wrote: post #8

They took proactive measurements when the rest of the world was still looking at how things would develop. Making tests well before they had their first case. When my country got its first cases they were still saying it isn't that contagious and everything is fine.

It's a bit of luck that the coutry had a private biotech company that makes tests for viruses, and the CEO of said company looked at Wuhan and decided to get samples from China.

I suppose, just like every country has a military or people managing their transportation infrastructure, there should be a "pandemic watch". (Well the US had a good one until Trump/John Bolton defunded it)

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#54

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

mantas wrote: post #44
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read repeatedly (and heard on the radio several times) that wearing a mask if YOU are infected will help protect other people, but if you are not infected then it has no known protective effect ie. is not thought to be any more protective than not wearing one. Do you have any evidence to back up you talk of masks? (And if YOU are infected you should not be out anyway) Edit: I was thinking of non-medical situatio…

Wearing mask discourages you from touching your face with your hands. If someone sneezes at you, even most simple mask will stop at least 50% of viruses. If someone was far away and only a small load reached you, that may be enough to keep you safe. > (And if YOU are infected you should not be out anyway) The big problem is to know when you're infected. Mask keeps others safe if you're not aware that you're infected.…

> Wearing mask discourages you from touching your face with your hands

Good point!

> If someone sneezes at you, even most simple mask will stop at least 50% of viruses

sounds plausible, but any reference for that figure?

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#55

Post by kijin »

mcsb4 wrote: post #21

Again another article that doesn't even mention the use of masks and hand sanitizer. The cost of the epidemic now goes into the trillions, self-made cotton masks are cheap compared to the economic damage. They can be disinfected in boiling water and if everybody uses them they will help to stop the spreading of the virus. In all the countries mentioned in the article people wear masks when in public, often just again…

To add a bit more data to your assertion, most of the 9,000 cases in South Korea can be traced to a handful of gatherings where people didn't wear masks.

First there was the cult in Daegu, where believers are not allowed to cover their faces because apparently their god can't see through fabric. Mass infections also occurred in churches where people took off their masks to eat or sing together, or tried to "sanitize" one another's mouths with a folk remedy. A gym in Cheonan was responsible for the majority of cases in that province, and recently there was a small burst of cases in an insurance company call center in Seoul.

Meanwhile, the subway in Seoul is just as packed with people as always, but I haven't heard of a single case that was conclusively traced to the subway. Why? Everyone wears a mask when riding the subway and sanitize their hands afterward.

Masks have been so effective that the Korean government has even stopped publishing locations that were visited by infected people if they are known to have worn a mask while visiting them. Yes, they still track down each and every case outside of the Daegu area.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#56

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

nopinsight wrote: post #45
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read repeatedly (and heard on the radio several times) that wearing a mask if YOU are infected will help protect other people, but if you are not infected then it has no known protective effect ie. is not thought to be any more protective than not wearing one. Do you have any evidence to back up you talk of masks? (And if YOU are infected you should not be out anyway) Edit: I was thinking of non-medical situatio…

You do NOT know if you are infected. Asymptomatic carriers is a major problem for COVID-19. A figure I saw was about 50% of infections come from them. Here's evidence and list of 34 science papers backing up the utility of masks in slowing down a viral epidemic: Thread with charts, articles, link to paper summaries: https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1242894378441506816 ADDED: Just the list of papers & their br…

Could you post the list here for us who can't use twitter (permanently disabled JS).

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#57

Post by Lewton »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #51
raaaaraaaa12 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that's right even your own DIY face mask protect other people. And that's enough to slow down spreading... You dont know for first ~5-6 days whether you are infected or not. https://www.businessinsider.com/people-are-making-diy-face-m... Don't worry too much about effectiveness of DIY face masks - in few months Respilon and other Czech companies will put on market face masks made from nanomaterials which filters…

Valid rebuttal, thanks. OK, I think that the mask over your own face is to prevent viral spread in largish water particles caused by coughs and sneezes, not general breathing (I'm not sure general breathing spreads much virus anyway, but I don't know). So if you are infected and not showing symptoms ie. not coughing/sneezing then arguably the mask is not doing anything. Arguably not, but we need more data - can anyon…

> not coughing/sneezing then arguably the mask is not doing anything.

People cough and sneeze all the time even if they're not sick.....

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#58

Post by endorphone »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #35
mcsb4 wrote: post #21

Again another article that doesn't even mention the use of masks and hand sanitizer. The cost of the epidemic now goes into the trillions, self-made cotton masks are cheap compared to the economic damage. They can be disinfected in boiling water and if everybody uses them they will help to stop the spreading of the virus. In all the countries mentioned in the article people wear masks when in public, often just again…

I've read repeatedly (and heard on the radio several times) that wearing a mask if YOU are infected will help protect other people, but if you are not infected then it has no known protective effect ie. is not thought to be any more protective than not wearing one. Do you have any evidence to back up you talk of masks? (And if YOU are infected you should not be out anyway) Edit: I was thinking of non-medical situatio…

"no known protective effect"

Right. No one has ever studied contagions among the community at large and the effect of masks. When you hear people say there is no evidence, this is what they are referring.

"is not thought to be any more protective than not wearing one"

This is taking that claim too far, and is seldom what they're saying. Or rather never what they are saying.

Early on there were PDAs that discouraged masks because a) there is a weird social effect in much of the West where people get panicky, and somehow view someone else wearing a mask as increasing the odds, or at least the reality, that they instead will get sick, b) to discourage personal buyers competing with medical buyers, c) because the odds of coming into contact with a SARS-CoV-2 carrier was very low, whereas it's high to very high for medical professionals.

We need to discard with that bullshit. We know with overwhelming evidence that masks work -- that's why medical professionals wear them -- and even the lowly surgical mask has the same effectiveness blocking pathogens in as they do out, especially aerosol pathogens like this one.

And of course we know that people can be spreading this without symptoms, so it would be a massive win just for that.

As supplies normalize and manufacturers ramp up, we're quickly going to be at a place where most in the West will be wearing a mask of some fashion, and it will be officially encouraged. This whole weird anti-mask paranoia will have cost lives.

Masks aren't a panacea, of course, They should be properly worn and rotated. Add that they increase the effort the lungs have to exert, especially N95 masks, so in a unfortunate irony people with compromised lungs -- the most vulnerable to COVID-19 -- have the most difficulty using masks.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#59

Post by austhrow743 »

adventured wrote: post #6

So have Thailand, the Philippines and Indonesia (440 million people). They've all had fewer cases than Luxembourg so far. I've yet to see a good explanation for it, other than maybe the premise about seasonal temps and humidity (northern vs southern hemisphere). There's no evidence they're massively lying about their numbers (which would show up in the form of a demolished hospital system and thousands dead of pneumo…

All three are barely testing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_testing

There's your explanation right there.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#60

Post by throwaway743 »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #35
mcsb4 wrote: post #21

Again another article that doesn't even mention the use of masks and hand sanitizer. The cost of the epidemic now goes into the trillions, self-made cotton masks are cheap compared to the economic damage. They can be disinfected in boiling water and if everybody uses them they will help to stop the spreading of the virus. In all the countries mentioned in the article people wear masks when in public, often just again…

I've read repeatedly (and heard on the radio several times) that wearing a mask if YOU are infected will help protect other people, but if you are not infected then it has no known protective effect ie. is not thought to be any more protective than not wearing one. Do you have any evidence to back up you talk of masks? (And if YOU are infected you should not be out anyway) Edit: I was thinking of non-medical situatio…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22485453
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