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Zoom iOS app sends data to Facebook even if you don’t have a Facebook account

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Re: Zoom iOS app sends data to Facebook even if you don’t have a Facebook account

#271

Post by mulmen »

manigandham wrote: post #265
bradly wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most users of Zoom aren't choosing it–it is being chosen for them. Both of my children's schools (preschool and elementary) started using Zoom this week, so it is either use Zoom or they do not get to participate.

Zoom has a web version.

How do you use it? I had to join a Zoom meeting and tried to use the webpage first but it tried to make me install a client. After the MacOS local web server debacle I will never do that. I figured the safest thing was to use the iOS app but wasn’t thrilled at the idea. I assume if there actually is a web client the process to access it is extremely user hostile. Is it a hidden link or something?

Zoom is obviously an extremely scummy company and I’d rather stay away from it entirely. Unfortunately they must be dumping cash into marketing because it’s now the biggest thing in video conferencing. It’s a shame, they now seem to have network effect going for them.

Re: Zoom iOS app sends data to Facebook even if you don’t have a Facebook account

#272

Post by godelski »

_cyrus wrote: post #205
leggomylibro wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's past time for us to get serious and apply HIPAA-style protection to the storage and transmission of PII, without exemptions. Companies like Facebook will complain loudly that they won't be able to survive, but that is not our problem. If we pass legislation with teeth, they will need to change their business model. That would be the point.

A user agent is not PII

What about a Unique Advertiser Identifier? What about a UAI with a name, phone number, phone model, GPS coordinates, and software version?

Re: Zoom iOS app sends data to Facebook even if you don’t have a Facebook account

#273

Post by wolco »

sicromoft wrote: post #50
robin_reala wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good thing is that this is illegal in the EU, so they can just be sued for problematic amounts of money.

Anyone know the best way to get started with suing them? Or should I assume that's already being done?

Get a lawyer. Open the yellow pages and start calling.

Re: Zoom iOS app sends data to Facebook even if you don’t have a Facebook account

#274

Post by tzs »

kasey_junk wrote: post #209
tzs wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way it is written makes it seem like 79 is independent of 77 and 78. You can pursue a claim through a supervisory authority (77) and if you are not happy with the result go to court (78), or you can go to court directly against the processor/controller (79), or maybe even do both. 79 specifically specifically says that pursuing a judicial remedy under it is without prejudice to any available administrative or non…

:shrug: I’m not a GDPR lawyer and further most of it doesn’t have precedent yet so we aren’t sure how its going to fall out. I did work on a GDPR compliance effort in an industry where it is big important (real time bidding ads) and our lawyers, while hedging, were not at all worried about random lawsuits. Their opinion was that we would easily be able to submit to the courts that the complaints needed to go through…

I did see one legal firm blog that said they expected a lot of lawsuits from individuals, but most blogs and reports I saw seemed to think it there won't be a lot of them.

If there are any, they probably won't be a big deal for the defendants. An individual lawsuit is limited to compensation for the damages suffered. In most cases, that just won't be very much, and so probably won't be worth the time and effort to pursue.

Only supervisory authorities can can impose punitive measures such as fines based on revenue. Those are the only things likely to actually make a difference.

Also I get the impression that European regulators are more responsive than US regulators. Europeans report things to regulators first and expect them to be taken care of. Contrast that to Americans who are far more likely to view the regulators as ineffective and turn first to a lawsuit.

Re: Zoom iOS app sends data to Facebook even if you don’t have a Facebook account

#275

Post by tomerv »

mulmen wrote: post #271
manigandham wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zoom has a web version.

How do you use it? I had to join a Zoom meeting and tried to use the webpage first but it tried to make me install a client. After the MacOS local web server debacle I will never do that. I figured the safest thing was to use the iOS app but wasn’t thrilled at the idea. I assume if there actually is a web client the process to access it is extremely user hostile. Is it a hidden link or something? Zoom is obviously an…

There is some shadow pattern where you need to refuse to install the app (or make it seems like the installation didn't work) and it will eventually give you a link to the web client. I'm not sure whether there is a reproducible way to get there.

Re: Zoom iOS app sends data to Facebook even if you don’t have a Facebook account

#276

Post by shermozle »

leggomylibro wrote: post #19
godelski wrote: post #2

> There is nothing in the privacy policy that addresses [that data is being sent to Facebook] > The Zoom app notifies Facebook when the user opens the app, details on the user's device such as the model, the time zone and city they are connecting from, which phone carrier they are using, and a unique advertiser identifier created by the user's device which companies can use to target a user with advertisements So Zoo…

It's past time for us to get serious and apply HIPAA-style protection to the storage and transmission of PII, without exemptions. Companies like Facebook will complain loudly that they won't be able to survive, but that is not our problem. If we pass legislation with teeth, they will need to change their business model. That would be the point.

They're not sending your name and address. They're sending the IDFA, device ID, of your device to Facebook. The fact that Facebook can link that device ID to your identity is on YOU. You logged into Facebook in their app to make that connection.

Re: Zoom iOS app sends data to Facebook even if you don’t have a Facebook account

#277

Post by ibeckermayer »

endgame wrote: post #263
gazzini wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with this — more regulation will make it harder to innovate. For example, I’ve met several founders who wanted to enable tele-medicine years ago but decided against it because “the lawyers cost more than the engineers”, and walking-on-eggshells destroys morale & iteration speed. I’m not arguing to de-regulate heath data — my point is that we should selectively apply regulation. It’s likely a great thing to…

It makes it harder to innovate in anti-social directions, and may catch some useful things in the crossfire. But on balance, slowing the rate of "innovation" for these companies that want you to shovel all data everywhere into their gaping maw? Not a problem for me.

This nonchalant attitude around "guilty until proven innocent" regulation is precisely how we wind up with America's alphabet soup of monopoly building bureaucracy.

The ethical way to preserve privacy is to change minds in a way that changes actions. Law is the threat of violent force, and should be wielded only with deep forethought about the underlying moral and practical realities.

Re: Zoom iOS app sends data to Facebook even if you don’t have a Facebook account

#278

Post by cageface »

yborg wrote: post #232
Phlarp wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like people forget "the bar" for anti-trust action used to be bundling the default app (web browser) with the OS (windows)

You're forgetting the 90% market share part.

Apple has more than enough market share, especially in the US, to dictate what the market does. If it doesn't technically have a monopoly in raw numbers that doesn't mean it should be allowed to get away with some of this shit.

Re: Zoom iOS app sends data to Facebook even if you don’t have a Facebook account

#279

Post by ozmbie »

st3fan wrote: post #26

EVERY. SINGLE. APP. THAT. INCLUDES. THE. FACEBOOK. SDK. Even if you don't log in. The Facebook SDK sends data back. Hook your device up to an intercepting proxy and start up a few apps. 99% of them do this. I really wish Apple would put an end to this.

I would love if Apple started treating app analytics like they do my GPS location or my camera permissions. Basically, if apps want to send analytics, they must go through an iOS API.

Then as a user, I can inspect what apps are sending and how frequently. I should be able to block requests or set myself as anonymous. Or allow apps for certain amounts of time etc.

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