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A review of Thomas Piketty’s “Capital and Ideology”

bostonreview.net

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Re: A review of Thomas Piketty’s “Capital and Ideology”

#101

Post by bisRepetita »

I am reading Capital & Idelogy currently. I find interesting how Piketty challenges the view of property rights. Many think it is something completely natural, sacred. But he shows it is actually ideology. It is not "the nature of things".

As I understand it in the book, property is not, and should not be seen as, a 100% inalienable human right. If it was so, it would be completely fair that slave-owners in Haiti and Santo Domingo were paid to forego slavery, when slavery was abolished. It was seen as a compensation for this new law that reduced the value of their property: slaves. Of course, slaves themselves were not compensated. Since they were the main beneficiaries of this new law, they actually had to pay for it in some cases. This is actually what happened.

In the USA, there were discussions about a similar outcome, but the sheer enormity of the needed compensation made it impossible This was one big reason that lead to the civil war.

This is the kind of weird, morally unacceptable reasoning about property rights that you will run into if you accept property as a all-powerful, unconstestable principle.

Re: A review of Thomas Piketty’s “Capital and Ideology”

#102

Post by refurb »

specialist wrote: post #89
refurb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gini coefficient is a very blunt measure of inequality. You could have two countries, one with more equality, but a lower standard of living for the middle class and one country with higher inequality, but a much better standard of living for the middle class. The 2nd (with higher inequality) is obviously preferred.

Krugman agrees with you. What's a better measure?

That's a tough question. Like most things that are complex, there is probably no one measure that accurately captures inequality.

What would make sense to me would be measuring the wealth of the majority of the population (3 middle quintiles) and then bringing up the bottom quintile to an acceptable level with transfer payments.

That reminds me as well, a lot of the inequality measures that you see ignore government transfers. So yes, the Gini would measure employment income, but it's not an accurate picture of actual income at the end of the year.

Re: A review of Thomas Piketty’s “Capital and Ideology”

#103

Post by booboolayla »

tsimionescu wrote: post #94
champagneben wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Open borders is anti-capitalist because it allows labor to move with the same liberty as capital, so it can help reduce the ability of capitalists to find deals. What? I seriously don't understand this. Find what deals? How does it make it harder? > Nations are fake. In what sense? Surely, given the opportunity, most people would prefer to live in Sweden as opposed to Liberia. Most would pick US citizenship over, s…

Not sure about the first part, but nations are quite obviously fake constructions once you start prodding at the seams. The most instructive places to look at in that direction are border areas in general, and the Middle East in particular. Often times when you look at border areas you will see absurd divisions of people who would normally work together. The border between Ireland and Northern Ireland is a strong exa…

You're confusing a state and a nation. Kurds are still a nation, even though they don't have their own state.

And of course, nations are not "fake." The "internationalist Left" caused two world wars trying to prove they're fake, but all their misguided projects end up breaking down into nation states.

Re: A review of Thomas Piketty’s “Capital and Ideology”

#104

Post by refurb »

bisRepetita wrote: post #101

I am reading Capital & Idelogy currently. I find interesting how Piketty challenges the view of property rights. Many think it is something completely natural, sacred. But he shows it is actually ideology. It is not "the nature of things". As I understand it in the book, property is not, and should not be seen as, a 100% inalienable human right. If it was so, it would be completely fair that slave-owners in Haiti and…

Of course property rights are ideology. Anything to do with society and how it's organized is ideological.

I think we ended up with private property because the alternatives have been tried and they are worse (e.g. tragedy of the commons).

Re: A review of Thomas Piketty’s “Capital and Ideology”

#105

Post by [deleted] »

lliamander wrote: post #99

I was watching a documentary[1] about Sweden's shift away from social democracy in the 70's/80's time-frame that Piketty talks about. From the way it sounds, the program of social democracy nearly destroyed the country. I would take Piketty's nostalgia for those times with a grain of salt. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcX6BUZlEw4

[deleted]

Re: A review of Thomas Piketty’s “Capital and Ideology”

#106

Post by refurb »

lliamander wrote: post #99

I was watching a documentary[1] about Sweden's shift away from social democracy in the 70's/80's time-frame that Piketty talks about. From the way it sounds, the program of social democracy nearly destroyed the country. I would take Piketty's nostalgia for those times with a grain of salt. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcX6BUZlEw4

I have a theory that lessons learned by humanity are quickly forgotten after a few generations and thus we are condemned to trying the same old ideas (with slight tweaks) again until the current generation figures out they don't work.

Re: A review of Thomas Piketty’s “Capital and Ideology”

#107

Post by fulafel »

lliamander wrote: post #99

I was watching a documentary[1] about Sweden's shift away from social democracy in the 70's/80's time-frame that Piketty talks about. From the way it sounds, the program of social democracy nearly destroyed the country. I would take Piketty's nostalgia for those times with a grain of salt. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcX6BUZlEw4

Tl;dw documentary, but that's not a very common interpretation. That was the time when the nordic countries built their succesful system that's in place today and is widely held in high regard.

Re: A review of Thomas Piketty’s “Capital and Ideology”

#108

Post by take_a_breath »

codingslave wrote: post #19
geodel wrote: post #7

" “the Democratic Party in the United States transitioned over half a century from the workers’ party to the party of the highly educated.” Elites’ distance from working-class interest, he contends, led the Democratic party and its ideological counterparts abroad to accede to a policy program betraying the values of social democracy: regressive taxation, elite domination of higher education systems, and forms of glob…

I've always viewed it as paradoxical that the left is both: 1.) For the welfare of the worker, social programs, universal healthcare, "standard of living" 2.) Open borders immigration, free trade, outsourcing, and other ultra capitalist policies.

I can never find this left block of "open borders" support. Can you provide some sources?

Re: A review of Thomas Piketty’s “Capital and Ideology”

#109

Post by kneel »

LargeWu wrote: post #82
pradn wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once went to a talk by Nassim Nicholas Taleb after the publication of his "Skin in the Game". He said the way to make a book last is to stuff it full of ideas, stories, and wander around. A focused book doesn't last. Take it as you will.

Well, that is certainly Taleb's approach. His books do contain some good ideas, but they are wildly unfocused and borderline unreadable.

Taleb is a horrible writer, plain and simple.

Attempted to read antifragile and was hit with a wall of incomprehensible jargon. The thesis of the book seemed appealing but he's too abstract, smells like a hack.

Re: A review of Thomas Piketty’s “Capital and Ideology”

#110

Post by mongol »

fulafel wrote: post #107
lliamander wrote: post #99

I was watching a documentary[1] about Sweden's shift away from social democracy in the 70's/80's time-frame that Piketty talks about. From the way it sounds, the program of social democracy nearly destroyed the country. I would take Piketty's nostalgia for those times with a grain of salt. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcX6BUZlEw4

Tl;dw documentary, but that's not a very common interpretation. That was the time when the nordic countries built their succesful system that's in place today and is widely held in high regard.

There can be too much of everything and there was too much of "social democracy" in the 70s. Author Astrid Lindgren had to pay more than 100 % tax and wrote the "childrens story" / opinion piece "Pomperipossa in Monismania"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomperipossa_in_Monismania

Next election the social democrats lost it for the first time in 40 years.

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