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Ask HN: Best sleep trackers?

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Re: Ask HN: Best sleep trackers?

#171

Post by dsaavy »

VectorLock wrote: post #89
dsaavy wrote: post #23

Autosleep for Apple Watch has had a significant impact on my life and I always rave about it to friends. I've been able to recognize choices in my daily life that significantly impact my sleep quality and have made changes that have improved my sleep because of it. I don't know how accurate it is in terms of tracking restless legs unless the movement of your legs causes movement of your upper body that would impact w…

How did Autosleep change your life? Like what decision did it impact?

For me it was a few general trends that I focused on combating due to their clear correlation with poor sleep. They weren't new or groundbreaking, but the data really hammered home the point for me.

Basically the main things were:

- Avoiding alcohol at night entirely (and no more than 1 if it was a social event I felt like drinking at) - Running for at least 3 miles at about 70-80% max heart rate (or shorter distances with higher intensity) guarantees a night of at least 2.5 hours of deep sleep and up to 3.5 according to the app. Otherwise I average around 1 hour of deep sleep on a normal day. - I'm a type 1 diabetic so sleeping with my blood sugar at around 80 mg/dL means I get a full night of restful sleep. When I'm above 120 mg/dL I start losing quality sleep, and above 200 mg/dL I get no deep sleep and low amounts of quality sleep with a higher heart rate.

All these things before the app I had a gut feeling they were minor impacts on my sleep, but turns out they were incredibly impactful. Looking back at my time in college makes me wonder sometimes how much knowledge I didn't retain or learn due to poor sleep and health habits. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

Re: Ask HN: Best sleep trackers?

#172

Post by solaxun »

scrollaway wrote: post #157
solaxun wrote: post #56

They are all garbage, without monitoring brainwaves you have essentially zero useful information about sleep quality/duration/stages. No amount of accelerometer/heart rate data is going to accurately reflect your sleep stages, regardless of what marketing spiel you read. For a brief time there was a consumer product "Zeo sleep monitor" which was a legitimate EEG-style brainwave headband you would wear to sleep. From…

The Dreem is the modern version of what you're mentioning. https://dreem.com/en

Wow I had no idea this existed! I checked for competitors a few years back and there was nothing at the time, so this looks relatively new - and also quite promising. I'm glad I clicked on this HN link, thanks for the pointer.

I fear they may follow the same course as Zeo at those prices though. For typical consumers I would imagine only the most fervent "quantified self" types are going to be comfortable spending $500 for sleep tracking.

I'm interested though :)

Re: Ask HN: Best sleep trackers?

#173

Post by dahfizz »

jerrytsai wrote: post #147
dahfizz wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geez, that almost sounds like faulty hardware. Do you find it counts steps accurately?

The step counting seems to work reasonably well. At least, it's internally consistent. The same workout or same route done multiple times results in no more than 5% variation when counting steps. But the sleep tracking has been awful. A lot of days I'll get up, sit in a chair, and will surf the web for several minutes, say 45 minutes, and the watch inevitably records this time as also sleep. It's quite ridiculous and…

Interesting. I've almost had the opposite problem - sometimes, if I wake up in the middle of night my watch will stop recording sleep and record a new sleeping session when I fall back asleep. So every once in a while I end up with two sleep recordings for a single night.

Re: Ask HN: Best sleep trackers?

#175

Post by keenmaster »

christiangenco wrote: post #168

I've had debilitating sleep onset insomnia (1-2 hour sleep onset latency) for my entire life, and I cured it with the Dreem 2 headband[1]. Unlike accelerometer-based sleep trackers (fitbit, Apple Watch et. al), the Dreem 2 is EEG-based. I can't trick it into thinking I'm sleeping by just holding very still. Now I effectively get a free sleep study done on me every night, which is AMAZING for N=1 randomized control st…

“[Dreem 2] enabled the single biggest improvement to my life in the last decade.”

Awesome, can you elaborate? I’m interested in how they combine AI with EEG for better sleep tracking. Also, have you experienced any discomfort from wearing a headband full of tech all night?

The only health tracker I’ve really used is the Withings Smart Scale. Even though it’s not super sophisticated and the non-weight measurements (like muscle mass) are unreliable, it helps me keep my weight in check.

Re: Ask HN: Best sleep trackers?

#176

Post by davewasthere »

hoopism wrote: post #32

I recall reading a paper that found that compared to clinical sleep study equipment (you know, electrodes all over your head) that most devices were random at best in terms of measuring REM sleep. I did a lot of research when a friend went all in on sleep monitoring and wound up worse than when he started (worrying over data). I didn't exhaustively research but based on un-biased available science I found at the time…

So looks like my randomised sleep times, working until bed, too warm a room, light seeping through, and glass of scotch in the evening 'routine' is not the most ideal.

Definitely need to take that advice on board!

Re: Ask HN: Best sleep trackers?

#178

Post by sershe »

I had a great experience with original Zeo, at least as far as I can tell timing and correlation-with-next-day wise. Unfortunately, they went out of business and the headband battery is not (easily?) replaceable, so once that ran out it became a fancy alarm clock.

I would be interested to know in particular if all the gimmicky trackers these days even remotely approach Zeo in accuracy; I know for sure that, for me, the "put your phone in bed" ones don't.

Re: Ask HN: Best sleep trackers?

#179

Post by christiangenco »

keenmaster wrote: post #175
christiangenco wrote: post #168

I've had debilitating sleep onset insomnia (1-2 hour sleep onset latency) for my entire life, and I cured it with the Dreem 2 headband[1]. Unlike accelerometer-based sleep trackers (fitbit, Apple Watch et. al), the Dreem 2 is EEG-based. I can't trick it into thinking I'm sleeping by just holding very still. Now I effectively get a free sleep study done on me every night, which is AMAZING for N=1 randomized control st…

“[Dreem 2] enabled the single biggest improvement to my life in the last decade.” Awesome, can you elaborate? I’m interested in how they combine AI with EEG for better sleep tracking. Also, have you experienced any discomfort from wearing a headband full of tech all night? The only health tracker I’ve really used is the Withings Smart Scale. Even though it’s not super sophisticated and the non-weight measurements (li…

> I’m interested in how they combine AI with EEG for better sleep tracking.

I'm not super well versed in how this works technically. My understanding is that even with raw EEG, accelerometer, and heart rate data it's not a straightforward problem to figure out what stage of sleep you're in. From the consumer side, I've just noticed a few patches they push down to my headband with "improved sleep tracking" in the changelog.

> have you experienced any discomfort from wearing a headband full of tech all night?

Nope. I was already wearing ear plugs and an eye mask, so the headband is a barely noticeable addition, even when side-sleeping.

Re: Ask HN: Best sleep trackers?

#180

Post by hoopism »

balfirevic wrote: post #74
hoopism wrote: post #32

I recall reading a paper that found that compared to clinical sleep study equipment (you know, electrodes all over your head) that most devices were random at best in terms of measuring REM sleep. I did a lot of research when a friend went all in on sleep monitoring and wound up worse than when he started (worrying over data). I didn't exhaustively research but based on un-biased available science I found at the time…

Unfortunately, it does seem true that most of sleep monitoring devices are not very good (I'm hopeful for the head-mounted ones, but I don't have any data). But the advice at the end of your post... I'm trying to put it politely - it's insulting rubbish for anyone with moderate to severe sleep issues. Correct advice, in the absence of actual REM tracking devices, is to go to the doctor - sleep specialist and possibly…

Sorry... it did sound snarky. I actually am familiar with few of the apps and devices and they do just make those recommendations. They throw fancy charts and nice UI at you and then make similar recommendations. I honestly don't think the data collected factors in much. They try and get you to normalize your routine and eliminate distractions and known sleep disruptors. I truly mean that you do not need the devices in order to get that advice. If you have a medical condition then by all means seek medical attention.
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