Live data from Hacker News

Coronavirus patients start to overwhelm US hospitals

edition.cnn.com

61–70 of 349 posts

Re: Coronavirus patients start to overwhelm US hospitals

#61
post #30
post #16

The 2017-2018 flu season also overwhelmed US hospitals: https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patie... https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2017-2018.ht... My point isn't that we should take Coronavirus any less seriously this year. Healthcare workers have no vaccine for it. It's on top of the flu. Etc. My point is that we should take the flu more seriously every year. Everyone gets their…

Got my flu shot last year, still ended up with severe flu in February. The flu shot is not completely effective.

Maybe you didn't get the flu. Flu like symptoms are very common in a huge variety of ailments.

Vaccinations are very effective protective measures. Just not at protecting against stuff that isn't in their narrow scope.

Re: Coronavirus patients start to overwhelm US hospitals

#62
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, this event has also opened my eyes to how important the flu shot is

What about this event makes the flu shot more important than otherwise?

It's always important. People are learning a bit more about intensive care and the poor outcomes for people in ITUs. They're learning a bit more about respiratory illness and the impact it can have even if you don't die. They're also learning that flu isn't a trivial illness for quite a few people.

(EDIT: I didn't downvote you, and I don't think an honest question deserves downvotes.)

Re: Coronavirus patients start to overwhelm US hospitals

#63
post #16

The 2017-2018 flu season also overwhelmed US hospitals: https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patie... https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2017-2018.ht... My point isn't that we should take Coronavirus any less seriously this year. Healthcare workers have no vaccine for it. It's on top of the flu. Etc. My point is that we should take the flu more seriously every year. Everyone gets their…

I'd love a more comprehensive discussion about the flu shot, because I've only used anecdotal evidence, and I suspect a lot of other people do the same. The first two years I got the flu shot from my employer at the time was 2007-2008, and I got a violent flu both years. Didn't get one after that for years, until last Feb, when I felt like I was going to die. Eventually went to urgent care, where I got fluids and sheepishly acknowledged to the nurse that I skipped my flu shot. She kinda shrugged it off and said, "Eh, it's about 50/50 whether it will work anyway."

Re: Coronavirus patients start to overwhelm US hospitals

#64
post #33
post #16

The 2017-2018 flu season also overwhelmed US hospitals: https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patie... https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2017-2018.ht... My point isn't that we should take Coronavirus any less seriously this year. Healthcare workers have no vaccine for it. It's on top of the flu. Etc. My point is that we should take the flu more seriously every year. Everyone gets their…

Yes, I do. Helps that I live with a Nurse Practitioner. However, the number of people I know who are convinced that getting the flu shot makes them sick or gives them the flu and thus refuse to get the shot is shocking. Some things I've actually heard: "I get sick every time!" No, you don't. "It's a LIVE VIRUS! Everybody knows this!" No, it's not. You're just an idiot hanging around with idiots.

I have usually skipped the flu shot for entirely selfish reasons -- that it's a hassle going to get it, needles are scary, and if I got the flu it's never that big of a deal. And I rationalized it to myself under the pretense that the shot sometimes doesn't work, etc.

I'll be more vigilant in getting it in the future.

Re: Coronavirus patients start to overwhelm US hospitals

#65
post #30
post #16

The 2017-2018 flu season also overwhelmed US hospitals: https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patie... https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2017-2018.ht... My point isn't that we should take Coronavirus any less seriously this year. Healthcare workers have no vaccine for it. It's on top of the flu. Etc. My point is that we should take the flu more seriously every year. Everyone gets their…

Got my flu shot last year, still ended up with severe flu in February. The flu shot is not completely effective.

The flu shot doesn't protect you from all / any flu.

Without some serious testing you're not likely to know what you got.

But even if we assume you did catch the flu, there have been long term effects that show that regular flu shots over a few years lessens the severity, occurrences of serious problems with the flu. So the benefits seem to go beyond a given vaccine.

With flu vaccines there seems to be both a specific benefit, but also more general benefit longer term.

Re: Coronavirus patients start to overwhelm US hospitals

#66

The American people are at the mercy of a rudderless death cult, and have increasingly been so over the past decade. It's coming to a head now. Oh, it seems I've been flagged.

You will be down voted to oblivion for even suggesting this is a deep cultural and political problem with America. Because suggesting such a thing is uncivil here on HN.

No, because that suggestion is a strawman and doesn't contribute to the discussion.

Re: Coronavirus patients start to overwhelm US hospitals

#67
Like most other for-profit enterprises, there is little incentive to maintain capacity greater than what is needed needed to handle the "average" demand. So when something exceptional happens, of course the capacity is inadequate.

You can also (likely successfully) argue that this will also happen in a government run healthcare system, but the situation has certainly not been improved by capitalism as implemented in the US.

Re: Coronavirus patients start to overwhelm US hospitals

#68
post #2

All the emergency managers did a great job posting videos and FAQs, which are completely useless now. We should have been building massive free clinics in every city starting two weeks ago. This is a failure of imagination.

More like two months ago.

Re: Coronavirus patients start to overwhelm US hospitals

#69
"To think that we're in New York City and this is happening," he added. "It's like a third-world country type of scenario. It's mind-blowing."

Historically, when sexually transmitted disease outbreaks occurred in the US, social workers would ask for the names of everyone you had slept with if you were infected and they would contact them and screen them and treat them. This was effective in stopping outbreaks.

We largely abandoned this approach after AIDS became a thing. In the US, AIDS was mostly a disease of IV drug users and gay men, both of whom were highly stigmatized populations. They understandably did not wish to give up the names of people they had slept with (or shared needles with).

Although I think we got a lot of human rights gains out of the battle to protect those populations, the downside is that we largely abandoned a proven method for putting a stop to disease outbreaks. Instead, we now default to trying to find drugs and vaccines rather than trying to stop the spread via "social" means (for lack of a better word).

There is a book called The Hot Zone that similarly describes non-medical/social interventions that helped stop the spread of Ebola. Among other things, tribal elders in Africa blockaded the roads so outsiders couldn't come in, they told their people "Don't go to the white man's hospital" because you go with a broken leg and die of Ebola and they began quarantining the sick.

You were forbidden from leaving your hut. They would leave food on your front doorstep for you to provide for you. If it sat there for three days in a row untouched, they burned the hut down without going in to check if you were still alive.

We are currently focusing a lot on ventilators. I've seen numerous articles on ventilators on HN and there are numerous projects trying to develop open source ventilators. Meanwhile, we are apparently largely overlooking noninvasive lung clearance techniques that can help with less extreme cases and may help prevent them from becoming such.

In human history, epidemics tend to mostly get stopped with non-medical interventions. Yes, I know, there are states under lock down. I'm in one of them.

But I feel I am seeing inadequate emphasis on prevention, changes in lifestyle, promotion of remote work as a solution, non-medical home care options so fewer people end up at the overwhelmed hospitals where care is getting rationed etc.

I have been saying for some days now that high use of ventilators will promote a rash of antibiotic resistant secondary infections. There has been at least one article posted to HN that suggested that antibiotic resistant infections may be a factor in the high death rate in Italy.

I think we can do better. I think that's not going to happen as long as we continue to worship medical intervention as the answer here.

I think lifestyle and procedural changes are needed. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and prevention doesn't require you to see a medical professional or get prescribed anything, yet everyone acts like either that's not going to be effective or it is too objectionable to embrace or making suggestions of that sort amounts to practicing medicine without a license.

-----

Previous comment about the history of AIDS in the US: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22658583

PDF version of The Hot Zone: http://projectavalon.net/THE_HOT_ZONE_Richard_Preston.pdf

Previous comments by me about about air clearance techniques and ventilators: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22651884

To the people inclined to harass me and threaten to sic the mods on me for commenting here, the mods appear to be well aware of my comments and have already asked someone to please cease and desist harassing me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22660362

Re: Coronavirus patients start to overwhelm US hospitals

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

81 people died of the virus in NYC yesterday. I think the large number approach of pandemics can almost sanitize the numbers of their humanity. Imagine 81 people died in a bus accident, or a fire, or a mass shooting. This is very serious and we're still at the beginning of it.

You can use the same argument for flu deaths, heart disease deaths, diabetes deaths, etc. The numbers that you pay attention to are dependent on what is popular right now.

The difference is the rate of those aren't doubling every three days.
Post reply on HN