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Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

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Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia, accuracy is actually defined in this context. This does not not mean that Bosch has not used everyday speech here but it is not clear that they have. Too bad that the article does not include links to additional information. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitivity_and_specificity#De...

Of course accuracy is defined, but it's not the right metric because you usually have a large bias in the tested population: even if you only test people with symptoms, you might only have 10% of people that actually have the disease; so a test that always says "NO" would have 90% accuracy. That's why you look at True Positive Rate (sensitivity) and True Negative Rate (specificity) to factor that bias out. If TPR is…

> IF TNR is 20%, that means you'll mistakenly detect 20% of people that don't have it as infected, which would be really bad.

Would it though? It's my understanding that most people who test positive are still being sent home, not forcefully hospitalized. And given that we don't actually have a widely used pharmaceutical intervention protocol, there's no side effects to worry about from false positives (eg of the opposite of this: if we were giving every confirmed case chloroquine or interleukin). The worst case outcome from a high false positive rate (low TNR) would seem to me that people would be extra good at self quarantining.

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The intuitive way I try to remember it is to think that, in just plain English, "How sensitive is this thing?" means "How likely is it to detect whatever it's supposed to detect?" (e.g.: How likely is this security camera to detect movement?)

"Sensitivity" is an inaccurate term, since for non-native English speakers, it could be misinterpreted as a term to mean some kind of emotional response. "Accuracy" is a bit more scientific- leaning and therefore easier to translate. Remember, COVID-19 is a global phenomenon, its not just relegated to the Anglo-sphere. Bosch, being a German company, is probably a bit sensitive to the accuracy of translations that wil…

> Remember, COVID-19 is a global phenomenon, its not just relegated to the Anglo-sphere. Bosch, being a German company, is probably a bit sensitive to the accuracy of translations that will be needed to market this thing effectively around the world .. ;)

...what?

I was only trying to help the parent find a way to remember which one is sensitivity and which one is specificity...

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#83
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course accuracy is defined, but it's not the right metric because you usually have a large bias in the tested population: even if you only test people with symptoms, you might only have 10% of people that actually have the disease; so a test that always says "NO" would have 90% accuracy. That's why you look at True Positive Rate (sensitivity) and True Negative Rate (specificity) to factor that bias out. If TPR is…

plus in the current context, false negatives are much more dangerous than false positives

Not necessarily.

Hospitals in an epidemic are major spreaders of the infection. If false positive results lead to patients being put together with real carriers, they will soon be infected.

From a recent report[1] from Italy:

> For example, we are learning that hospitals might be the main Covid-19 carriers, as they are rapidly populated by infected patients, facilitating transmission to uninfected patients. Patients are transported by our regional system, which also contributes to spreading the disease as its ambulances and personnel rapidly become vectors. Health workers are asymptomatic carriers or sick without surveillance; some might die, including young people, which increases the stress of those on the front line.

It could mean that some of the major causes of the large death toll in Italy are the lack of personal protection equipment, and, possibly, laxity in following protocol.

[1] https://catalyst.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/CAT.20.0080

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#84
post #73

This is fine, but it is yet another molecular test. What we need now are serology tests. They are faster, cheaper, easier to execute (blood-based), can detect cured patients, and can scale to the population of a country. Serology tests are already used in several countries in Asia, I have little doubt they will arrive in Europe and the US soon-ish.

We already have serology tests in Czechia (got several days ago from China), but there is some confusion about how useful they are. They may produce negative results even for patients with several days of clinical symptoms, so negative results still needs to ve verified with molecular test.

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#85
post #71
post #63

Is not ROCHE systems more performants https://www.roche.com/media/releases/med-cor-2020-03-13.htm ?

From your link: ”The widely available Roche’s cobas 6800/8800 Systems, which are used to perform the cobas SARS-CoV-2 Test, provide test results in three and half hours and offer improved operating efficiency, flexibility, and fastest time-to-results with the highest throughput providing up to 96 results in about three hours and a total of 384 results for the cobas 6800 System and 960 results for the cobas 8800 Syste…

So you need 288 BOSH devices to have the daily throughput of a ROCHE 8800 System

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#86

Up to 1,000 (in smaller font) tests per day on just 100 devices I guess 10 test per day per device is not as cool

i think it’s for the time after the pandemic. so you can identity potential infected very decentralized, so it does not happen again in 2021.

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#88

Up to 1,000 (in smaller font) tests per day on just 100 devices I guess 10 test per day per device is not as cool

i think it’s for the time after the pandemic. so you can identity potential infected very decentralized, so it does not happen again in 2021.

that is the right angle I guess. This should be a local doctor device.

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#89

Up to 1,000 (in smaller font) tests per day on just 100 devices I guess 10 test per day per device is not as cool

That depends on how small and inexpensive the device is. For arguments sake if it is the size (looks like it) and price of a small computer than you can put one anywhere and scale it massively.

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sensitivity" is an inaccurate term, since for non-native English speakers, it could be misinterpreted as a term to mean some kind of emotional response. "Accuracy" is a bit more scientific- leaning and therefore easier to translate. Remember, COVID-19 is a global phenomenon, its not just relegated to the Anglo-sphere. Bosch, being a German company, is probably a bit sensitive to the accuracy of translations that wil…

> Remember, COVID-19 is a global phenomenon, its not just relegated to the Anglo-sphere. Bosch, being a German company, is probably a bit sensitive to the accuracy of translations that will be needed to market this thing effectively around the world .. ;) ...what? I was only trying to help the parent find a way to remember which one is sensitivity and which one is specificity...

Yes, and you perfectly demonstrated the confusion possible by selecting the wrong terms. Sure, 'specificity' and 'sensitivity' are scientific terms - but for marketing material, can be confused with emotional responses. Thus, I believe Bosch chose 'accuracy', since this translates into other languages more effectively.
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