Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19 • Hacker News Board

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#41

Post by moooo99 » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 10:31 AM UTC

numlock86 wrote: post #11

> Up to 10,000,000 tests per day ... > ... on just 1,000,000 devices Incredible marketing.

Given the size of hospitals around the world, I'd assume its not unlikely that they'll buy 100+ of these devices. I agee that this is somewhat confusing, but it doesn't seem too unrealistic.

Also, it seems like the actual test is the cartridge which is inserted into an existing device. So the device is probably already in use in some places and can get this extra test capability by just inserting the cartridge.

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#42

Post by _Microft » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 10:31 AM UTC

sheldonf wrote: post #19

Zealotux wrote: post #3

It all sounds impressive to me: >In various laboratory tests with SARS-CoV-2, the Bosch test delivered results with an accuracy of over 95 percent. I've read a lot of report on the current tests for SARS-CoV-2 having accuracy issues, does anyone know how 95% accuracy compares to the current methods?

Practicing hospital physician here. We never use the term "accuracy" to describe diagnostic tests, and whenever I see that term used, I'm very suspicious of the claim being made. In other words, this Bosch announcement can probably be ignored. We use the terms "sensitivity" and "specificity" to describe diagnostic test performance, and never to my knowledge talk about a test's "accuracy." Usually accuracy refers to t…

According to Wikipedia, accuracy is actually defined in this context. This does not not mean that Bosch has not used everyday speech here but it is not clear that they have. Too bad that the article does not include links to additional information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitivity_and_specificity#De...

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#43

Post by pauljurczak » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 10:34 AM UTC

khjklehti wrote: post #36

How expensive is this machine? $1k, $10k?

Certainly not $1K! BTW, at current U.S. hospital billing levels, $1K buys you a small bottle of Tylenol. Think big, my friend!

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#44

Post by llarsson » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 10:37 AM UTC

With announcements of this type of thing, what I think we all need to know is also "can you produce tons of these things right now", not just that they exist.

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#45

Post by de_watcher » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 10:41 AM UTC

dom_hutton wrote: post #40

gfosco wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The full quote does one extra thing, it implies that buying 100+ of these machines is totally expected.

Is this marketing?

Better (or worse) marketing: "a test takes almost 2.5 hours".

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#46

Post by dna_polymerase » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 10:44 AM UTC

pauljurczak wrote: post #43

khjklehti wrote: post #36

How expensive is this machine? $1k, $10k?

Certainly not $1K! BTW, at current U.S. hospital billing levels, $1K buys you a small bottle of Tylenol. Think big, my friend!

Sorry, German source only, but reportedly: Device is 15.000€ and a single cartridge runs between 50 and 100€ [0].

[0]: https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/industrie/pandemie-...

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#47

Post by s9w » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 10:45 AM UTC

Zealotux wrote: post #3

It all sounds impressive to me: >In various laboratory tests with SARS-CoV-2, the Bosch test delivered results with an accuracy of over 95 percent. I've read a lot of report on the current tests for SARS-CoV-2 having accuracy issues, does anyone know how 95% accuracy compares to the current methods?

Depending on what exactly that 95% number is, that could be incredibly bad. There is some eye-opening math about testing inaccuracies combined with low case numbers.

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#48

Post by GrumpyNl » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 10:47 AM UTC

More important question is, do we trust them?

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#49

Post by dx034 » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 10:50 AM UTC

gfosco wrote: post #24

diggan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The full quote is "A Bosch Vivalytic analyzer can perform up to ten tests in the space of 24 hours. This means it takes just 100 devices to evaluate up to 1,000 tests per day." which makes more sense, the 100 devices is just an example. But I agree that it's largely unnecessary, the initial "up to ten tests per day" would have been enough.

The full quote does one extra thing, it implies that buying 100+ of these machines is totally expected.

I'm not sure how they price these devices but it could make sense to compare against labs. The question is not how many tests a device can perform but how many tests you can perform for all available devices and at a price comparable to larger lab installations. Maybe 100 devices is a comparable rate there.

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#50

Post by thomasz » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 10:50 AM UTC

usrusr wrote: post #20

ThePhysicist wrote: post #10

Sounds really impressive, but writing "1,000 tests per day with just 100 devivces" is really marketing BS I think. They should've just written "10 tests per day per device".

True. This is seems to be on one of the extreme ends of latency versus throughput optimization and its niche in the big picture of Covid-19 will be very small. But it appears to be a new test cartridge for an already deployed machine, so it makes sense to have it anyways. I don't know who the typical customer of an on-site lab in a box like that is, but I guess that as last part of the market will be defined by remot…

> True. This is seems to be on one of the extreme ends of latency versus throughput optimization and it's niche in the big picture of Covid-19 will be very small.

Could be very important for screening doctors, nurses, and people in close contact with high risk populations.