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Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

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Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#21

Post by [deleted] »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #18
gpderetta wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't current testing machines have much, much higher throughput? Like in the thousands of tests per day? It seems the advantage of this new device is latency. Of course if they are cheap enough and easy to use that you can buy thousands of them and distribute to all hospitals then might also increase total throughput.

It’s a really small device as far as I understand, so you could use it in a small practice or even on the go (?). This can be an advantage as most of the lab systems weigh several tons and take up a lot of floor space, hence you can never use them in a decentralized setting.

[deleted]

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#22

Post by tachion »

guillem_lefait wrote: post #13
ginko wrote: post #6

> Up to 1,000 tests per day on just 100 devices So.. 10 tests per day per device? That doesn't sound THAT impressive.

"under two and a half hours" per test. To be able to make 10 tests per day, you'll probably can't have any delay between tests : 1 day = 10 x (2 hours + 24minutes). If accuracy is an issue, why not doing a two pass procedure ? 1) test quick and cheap 2) if results have low confidence, move to longer/more reliable testing method

How does that help? Which results are you going to treat with low confidence for second pass and why? Positives? Negatives? Both? If both, then what's the point of first pass anyway?

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#23

Post by thinkharderdev »

sheldonf wrote: post #19
Zealotux wrote: post #3

It all sounds impressive to me: >In various laboratory tests with SARS-CoV-2, the Bosch test delivered results with an accuracy of over 95 percent. I've read a lot of report on the current tests for SARS-CoV-2 having accuracy issues, does anyone know how 95% accuracy compares to the current methods?

Practicing hospital physician here. We never use the term "accuracy" to describe diagnostic tests, and whenever I see that term used, I'm very suspicious of the claim being made. In other words, this Bosch announcement can probably be ignored. We use the terms "sensitivity" and "specificity" to describe diagnostic test performance, and never to my knowledge talk about a test's "accuracy." Usually accuracy refers to t…

So would sensitivity be the percentage of infected people who test positive and specificity be the percentage of non-infected who test negative (i.e. sensitivity = (1 - false negative probability) and specificity = (1 - false positive probability))?

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#24

Post by gfosco »

diggan wrote: post #16
ThePhysicist wrote: post #10

Sounds really impressive, but writing "1,000 tests per day with just 100 devivces" is really marketing BS I think. They should've just written "10 tests per day per device".

The full quote is "A Bosch Vivalytic analyzer can perform up to ten tests in the space of 24 hours. This means it takes just 100 devices to evaluate up to 1,000 tests per day." which makes more sense, the 100 devices is just an example. But I agree that it's largely unnecessary, the initial "up to ten tests per day" would have been enough.

The full quote does one extra thing, it implies that buying 100+ of these machines is totally expected.

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#26

Post by mehrdadn »

sheldonf wrote: post #19
Zealotux wrote: post #3

It all sounds impressive to me: >In various laboratory tests with SARS-CoV-2, the Bosch test delivered results with an accuracy of over 95 percent. I've read a lot of report on the current tests for SARS-CoV-2 having accuracy issues, does anyone know how 95% accuracy compares to the current methods?

Practicing hospital physician here. We never use the term "accuracy" to describe diagnostic tests, and whenever I see that term used, I'm very suspicious of the claim being made. In other words, this Bosch announcement can probably be ignored. We use the terms "sensitivity" and "specificity" to describe diagnostic test performance, and never to my knowledge talk about a test's "accuracy." Usually accuracy refers to t…

Thank you! I've been bringing up the sensitivity issue a lot recently, since it seems to be disregarded by many upset at the situation. I have a question for you if you don't mind: when so many people complain about lack of testing in the US, do you know what false-negative rates would exist for the tests we'd expect to see (like what they see available en mass in other countries)? And would you know what that level would need to be for the test to be useful?

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#27

Post by gridlockd »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #10

Sounds really impressive, but writing "1,000 tests per day with just 100 devivces" is really marketing BS I think. They should've just written "10 tests per day per device".

> Sounds really impressive, but writing "1,000 tests per day with just 100 devivces" is really marketing BS I think.

Correct.

> They should've just written "10 tests per day per device".

Incorrect. Marketing BS works.

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#28

Post by gridlockd »

Zealotux wrote: post #3

It all sounds impressive to me: >In various laboratory tests with SARS-CoV-2, the Bosch test delivered results with an accuracy of over 95 percent. I've read a lot of report on the current tests for SARS-CoV-2 having accuracy issues, does anyone know how 95% accuracy compares to the current methods?

In my recollection, previously announced "quick tests" had only a 70% accuracy.

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#29

Post by mehrdadn »

thinkharderdev wrote: post #23
sheldonf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Practicing hospital physician here. We never use the term "accuracy" to describe diagnostic tests, and whenever I see that term used, I'm very suspicious of the claim being made. In other words, this Bosch announcement can probably be ignored. We use the terms "sensitivity" and "specificity" to describe diagnostic test performance, and never to my knowledge talk about a test's "accuracy." Usually accuracy refers to t…

So would sensitivity be the percentage of infected people who test positive and specificity be the percentage of non-infected who test negative (i.e. sensitivity = (1 - false negative probability) and specificity = (1 - false positive probability))?

Yes. The intuitive way I try to remember it is to think that, in just plain English, "How sensitive is this thing?" means "How likely is it to detect whatever it's supposed to detect?" (e.g.: How likely is this security camera to detect movement?)

Re: Bosch develops rapid test for Covid-19

#30

Post by neuronic »

sheldonf wrote: post #19
Zealotux wrote: post #3

It all sounds impressive to me: >In various laboratory tests with SARS-CoV-2, the Bosch test delivered results with an accuracy of over 95 percent. I've read a lot of report on the current tests for SARS-CoV-2 having accuracy issues, does anyone know how 95% accuracy compares to the current methods?

Practicing hospital physician here. We never use the term "accuracy" to describe diagnostic tests, and whenever I see that term used, I'm very suspicious of the claim being made. In other words, this Bosch announcement can probably be ignored. We use the terms "sensitivity" and "specificity" to describe diagnostic test performance, and never to my knowledge talk about a test's "accuracy." Usually accuracy refers to t…

The substantial false-negative rate is also one of the reasons why covid patients weren't released from quarantine after a first negative test, since a single result doesn't pass the risk threshold. Multiple negatives in sequence give the desired certainty of someone really being covid-free.
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