Live data from Hacker News

5,000-year-old sword discovered by archaeology student at a Venetian monastery

edition.cnn.com

51–60 of 117 posts

Re: 5,000-year-old sword discovered by archaeology student at a Venetian monastery

#51

Wow, this is very interesting and right up my alley. One of my many random hobbies is collecting images of artefacts and I have a huge dir dedicated just to ancient swords. Bronze tends to look very similar due to the casting methods but it's cool to see an older iteration and compare it to say the Scythian (my personal favorites), Mycenaean, Greek, Mesopotamian, Egyptian, etc. Funny enough, the ones I have marked as…

It seems your user name matches your hobby!

I suppose you have a point! Most people don't know the story of Arminius so I usually dont get any comments about it.

Re: 5,000-year-old sword discovered by archaeology student at a Venetian monastery

#53
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a historian / archaeologist, so I can't really be sure here, but I would have assumed bronze would have been valued throughout history for-at least-it's appearance? I also would have assumed the fun-factor has been a historical constant too? If you're wealthy enough, at any time since the bronze age, you might want a bronze version of [thing] for the same reasons people want a bronze [thing] now?

You raise an interesting point, and one that I have thought about quite often. In archaeology, there seems to be an assumption that people in the past only ever did things for two reasons: Utility and religion. If an object doesn't seem to have an obvious usefulness, it's assumed that the artifact is of religious nature. People have not changed much in the last few thousand years, and thins that we find interesting t…

Archaeologist here.

> In archaeology, there seems to be an assumption that people in the past only ever did things for two reasons: Utility and religion. If an object doesn't seem to have an obvious usefulness, it's assumed that the artifact is of religious nature.

> I wonder if archeologists actually do believe everything was either utilitarian or religious, or if that’s just the way it gets reported?

This is definitely now how archaeologists think. Archaeology is a subfield of anthropology. Our goal is to understand how people live through the lens of material culture, i.e. how people inhabit a world made out of stuff. Of course it is common to consider the pragmatic aspects regarding why weird things might have been created or the purposes that they might serve in people's lives, but chocking the unexplainable up to ritual or religion is just dumb and amateurish. No archaeologist I know actually does this. Archaeologists generally feel comfortable acknowledging that we can't explain certain things from our current standpoint, saying that it's ritual without a basis for that claim is just plain dumb and is never taken seriously. It is an extremely outdated trope.

> People have not changed much in the last few thousand years, and thins that we find interesting today must surely have been interesting in the past. In your example, why wouldn't a person 1000 years ago consider a replica "ancient thing" just as interesting as we do today?

Note in my definition of archaeology I don't focus on the past? That's intentional, since archaeologists very commonly examine contemporary material culture.

> Just imagine a future archaeologist looking at the modern work with the mindset of current archaeologists? What kind of religious symbolism would they ascribe to a picachu cosplay outfit?

As an archaeologist, my understanding is that pikachu products exist to make money for the people who sell pikachu products.

You need to understand that archaeologists are never working in the dark. We reason through an abductive process, like adding brushstrokes to a never-quite-complete painting (also similar to medical diagnosis). We'll never actually understand how people lived in the past, since it is impossible to verify any such claim. But we can come up with a reasonable understanding by slotting different streams of complementary evidence together.

Re: 5,000-year-old sword discovered by archaeology student at a Venetian monastery

#54
post #19

Reminds me of the discovery of a 1,500 year old sword at the bottom of a lake thought to be King Arthur's legendary excalibur which was said to have been thrown in that same lake in Cornwall in England [0]. 𝔄𝔫𝔡 𝔰𝔬 𝔶𝔢 𝔩𝔢𝔤𝔢𝔫𝔡 𝔬𝔣 𝔈𝔵𝔠𝔞𝔩𝔦𝔟𝔲𝔯 𝔴𝔞𝔰 𝔱𝔯𝔲𝔢... [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/schoolgirl-e...

How did you make HN use that font? :)

Blackface letters are used in in mathematical notation, so it’s not so much a different font as an extremely broken equation.

Re: 5,000-year-old sword discovered by archaeology student at a Venetian monastery

#55

How does one get better at noticing that something is "off" like this sword not matching its claimed origin? To me, it took more than student being an expert here. Experts often miss things like this in my experience if they're not paying attention for it. I'm assuming that the student was the a tour not in her capacity as a Bronze age weapons specialist, so if that's true then this wasn't necessarily something she w…

It seems like in this case, there was a vague description that didn't align with her acute knowledge of a very specific/esoteric subject. Her father was an archival researcher at the monastery. So to get better at this, a good path would probably be to develop general critical observation skills, as well as a deep understanding of particular subjects that you'd be exposed to.

Re: 5,000-year-old sword discovered by archaeology student at a Venetian monastery

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you make HN use that font? :)

Blackface letters are used in in mathematical notation, so it’s not so much a different font as an extremely broken equation.

Blackletter

Re: 5,000-year-old sword discovered by archaeology student at a Venetian monastery

#58
post #9

Given that it's a bronze sword it seems fairly clear it wasn't medieval. Surprising that this took so long.

Blatantly mislabeled stuff being rediscovered in archives and dusty back shelves of museums is more the rule than the exception. It happens all the time. There's way more stuff collecting dust in museum archives than there are subject matter experts to review them. For instance: https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/09/historians-find-long...

Also, natural history museums are good places to discover new species.

- https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/meet-the-new-s...: “Helgen notes that two out of three new mammal species are discovered in museum collection cabinets”

- https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/09/190925120420.h...: “New species of crocodile discovered in museum collections”

- http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141230-the-new-species-hidi...: “Here are five extraordinary new species that have been discovered in museums in recent years”

Re: 5,000-year-old sword discovered by archaeology student at a Venetian monastery

#59
post #52

Whats even cooler is that this sword/dagger might have been made from meteorite. Eg. It could be alien.

Doubt there are bronze meteorites known to humanity.

Either way, copper, the major component of bronze, is a product of exploding supernovas. That's cool enough.

Re: 5,000-year-old sword discovered by archaeology student at a Venetian monastery

#60
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You raise an interesting point, and one that I have thought about quite often. In archaeology, there seems to be an assumption that people in the past only ever did things for two reasons: Utility and religion. If an object doesn't seem to have an obvious usefulness, it's assumed that the artifact is of religious nature. People have not changed much in the last few thousand years, and thins that we find interesting t…

Archaeologist here. > In archaeology, there seems to be an assumption that people in the past only ever did things for two reasons: Utility and religion. If an object doesn't seem to have an obvious usefulness, it's assumed that the artifact is of religious nature. > I wonder if archeologists actually do believe everything was either utilitarian or religious, or if that’s just the way it gets reported? This is defini…

> This is definitely now how archaeologists think

I think this is a typo and should be "definitely not how"

Post reply on HN