Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

andregarzia.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

761–770 of 927 posts

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#761

Post by joeblau »

kstrauser wrote: post #730
osrec wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a relief. We've built our business on our PWA, which also has an offline mode. It would be annoying if we had to adjust it for (yet another) Safari quirk.

Except that by "Safari quirk" you mean "the way that all common browsers are heading". Safari is the first here. Firefox is certain to be right behind them. Google, probably not, but I bet Edge does the same thing before too long.

Google is planning on implementing part of this in 2022[1]. Not sure what they are going to do about the browser storage though.

[1] - https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/14/21064698/google-third-par...

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#763

Post by philistine »

Silhouette wrote: post #750
kstrauser wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that by "Safari quirk" you mean "the way that all common browsers are heading". Safari is the first here. Firefox is certain to be right behind them. Google, probably not, but I bet Edge does the same thing before too long.

I hope not. Apple has had substandard support for modern web technologies in Safari for a long time, to the point where it is often referred to in the industry as the new IE. We've had enough of browsers breaking things that used to work in the name of false progress. Time for the grown-ups to take a careful look and see this for what it is.

Here’s my take on what it is: the most battery-efficient browser. I’ll take 30 more minutes on my laptop before some nebulous modern web standard.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#764

Post by NightlyDev »

TheKarateKid wrote: post #323
cageface wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

moving forward we can expect Apple to start systemically hindering web apps They have been doing this for quite some time now. Always ostensibly to protect users but always also conveniently putting webapps at a permanent disadvantage to native apps. For my part I'm not interested in being a user of a platform so hostile to the web that it disallows any third party browsers.

> Always ostensibly to protect users but always also conveniently putting webapps at a permanent disadvantage to native apps. This isn't always a bad thing though. For example, Safari has prohibited some obnoxious behavior that Chrome has allowed: Autoplaying videos, tab suspension, push notifications. These hog CPU and destroy battery life, worsening the user experience. Remember, making everything a web app is Goog…

By your logic they should just remove push notifications completely from iOS because it uses power. Wouldn't that be bad?

Web push is better than native app push when it comes to power consumption as web push is stricter on what you can do.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#765

Post by pier25 »

Gaelan wrote: post #746
pier25 wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

will it be "7 days of non-use" for regular websites that use localStorage? You can't really have "seven days of application use without visiting the site".

For "regular websites" (visited through Safari) it's 7 days where you use Safari, but don't visit the site. So if you go on vacation for a month and don't touch your computer, or if you switch completely to using Firefox for a month, localStorage will remain untouched.

Where is this explained?

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#766

Post by NightlyDev »

tyree731 wrote: post #441
madeofpalk wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the guidelines specifically ban non-webkit rendering engines. > 2.5.6 Apps that browse the web must use the appropriate WebKit framework and WebKit Javascript.

At a minimum we can be thankful that Apple's rules force web developers to care about one additional browser.

Lucky us. We web developers really want to care about specific browsers like it's 2006 again.

IE6 must have been a great inspiration for Apple judging by their behaviour when it comes to Web.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#767

Post by Silhouette »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #99
codesections wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple restricts tracking by limiting browser storage But the argument that this will protect privacy in the first place seems really weak. Before this change in Apple's policy, an app could store my config data on my PC. After this change, they'd need to have me log in and send the config data to their servers. That seems like I've lost privacy, not gained it.

> they'd need to have me log in and send the config data to their servers You'd have to log in. That's a hurdle that involves implicit consent.

Any time you see the phrase "implicit consent", it can be helpful to stop and ask how that consent could be withheld without changing anything else. If it can't be, then it's not really consent at all.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#768

Post by NightlyDev »

TheKarateKid wrote: post #324
cageface wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's not about what's best for the user but what's best for Apple? I wouldn't call that "understandable". All this is doing is contributing to webkit monoculture.

Remember, making everything a web app is Google's agenda because they benefit most from it.

Remember, harming webapps is Apple's agenda because only they benefit from it.

On the other hand, the web is mostly open for all, so most people benefit from it, not just Google.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#769

Post by Silhouette »

philistine wrote: post #763
Silhouette wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope not. Apple has had substandard support for modern web technologies in Safari for a long time, to the point where it is often referred to in the industry as the new IE. We've had enough of browsers breaking things that used to work in the name of false progress. Time for the grown-ups to take a careful look and see this for what it is.

Here’s my take on what it is: the most battery-efficient browser. I’ll take 30 more minutes on my laptop before some nebulous modern web standard.

How does something like allowing data to be stored by a web app that isn't even being used for more than a week cause your laptop to lose 30 minutes of battery life?

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#770

Post by 40four »

hoten wrote: post #753
40four wrote: post #751

This just sounds like a great reason to not use Safari. I switched to iOS recently, but I’m a dedicated Firefox user, so I personally don’t touch it except when I’m forced to by other apps opening links. (I was honestly REALLY disappointed in Apple when I realized that you’re not allowed to set a default browser besides safari, but that’s another story) Forgive me, I’m a long time Android user, but do a lot of people…

All browsers on iOS are webkit (read: safari) under the hood. Firefox and Chrome are just skins.

Thanks for correcting my ignorance :) that makes more sense.
Post reply on HN