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Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

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Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#121

Post by cultus »

scotty79 wrote: post #110
kvee wrote: post #31

This is a generally unpopular opinion, and I don't know that I agree with it, but it does appear that the billionaires might be logically right from an ethical perspective. It might cost more QALYs (quality-adjusted life years) to have an economic recession the size of 2008 than to have millions die from COVID-19: https://medium.com/@benfinn/coronavirus-how-much-is-a-life-w...

Recession in what? You can have recession in yaht and dog stylist industries without many ill effects. Many businesses will be booming in pandemic. Just not the usual ones and that pains the owners of usual ones greatly.

This is not true, and is why the markets are crap. Everyone is buying much less. This means there is less demand still. Thus the economy contracts like dominos. This is literally how every recession in history has worked.

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#122

Post by ageofwant »

Traster wrote: post #41
chungy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In part because they've realized that they can complete their core work duties in less time, with less distractions, and zero commuting. The first two depend _very_ heavily on both your home and office environments. It is certainly not true for myself.

Absolutely, I'm getting very tired of the constant hacker news posts telling me that working from home is the future, that I'm getting twice as much done in half the time. I'll tell you what I have, I have chronic back pain from my uncomfortable dining room chairs and chronic anger at the fact I can't get timely answers to my quesitons. Some people like working from home, fine, but for many of us it's just not right.

Peculiar world view this. A good chair costs $300, and is tax-deductible. And you can pick one that fits you perfectly. Why are you under the delusion that your co-workers are there to service your query queue ? Figure out how to help yourself. Avoiding interrupting pesky colleagues is a major reason working from home is such a pleasure.

People defend this self-serving behaviour in the name of 'teamwork' and it needs to be called out.

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#123

Post by TeMPOraL »

justchilly wrote: post #96
oulu2006 wrote: post #6

This shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Billionaires are billionaires because of the extreme disproportionate gains by the few at the expense of thousands/millions. They're used to seeing the many slave away for their interests. Not seeing that happening now is throwing their view of proper world order into chaos and they're not used to be back in a position without control.

Its not a zero sum game. Many billionaires - including the ones referenced in the article - got that way by executing on ideas/products that improve society. Think of all the ways companies created by billionaires progressed our quality of life (yes even Bezos, Larry/Sergy, Gates, Musk, Zuckerberg, not to mention industries like food, pharma, agriculture, construction, transportation). The way we get to version of so…

Everyone having a high quality of life is inefficient, market-wise. Creating efficiencies involves taking away quality of life for many, and turning it into profits for the few.

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#124

Post by cycrutchfield »

rsweeney21 wrote: post #78
Ididntdothis wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you explain hundreds of people dying every day in Italy?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S120197121...

You seem to be trying to suggest that COVID-19 is no worse than previous influenza epidemics. That does not seem to align with the facts on the ground. We are seeing historically high hospitalizations in many different countries, and certainly historically high rates of deaths. If your hypothesis were correct, we would have also seen this many times in the past.

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#125

Post by scotty79 »

pengaru wrote: post #25

No shit, it's not like we have no slave-owners today for lack of want, either.

Own and rent are two side of the same coin.

We have no slaves today because renting turned out to be cheaper than owning with advancement of infrastructure and technology.

We still use convicts as slaves. It's worth it only if someone else (in case of convicts, the government) covers the cost of ownership.

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#126

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

kvee wrote: post #31

This is a generally unpopular opinion, and I don't know that I agree with it, but it does appear that the billionaires might be logically right from an ethical perspective. It might cost more QALYs (quality-adjusted life years) to have an economic recession the size of 2008 than to have millions die from COVID-19: https://medium.com/@benfinn/coronavirus-how-much-is-a-life-w...

I understand this argument, but the logical fallacy of emotional appeal is too strong on this one. It can't be the case where millions are better off dying. It feels so unjust. Even if the rest of us are slightly worse off, the lockdown means more life lived for all. I'm nowhere near crossing the bridge, but I imagine the last weeks or months of lives greatly matter to those who know their time is short.

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#127

Post by WalterBright »

scotty79 wrote: post #105
WalterBright wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any person or group in the US can start a worker cooperative and run it as they see fit.

Are they competitive if they don't exploit their workers like companies do?

The idea is to pay the workers out of the profits that would otherwise go to the business owner. This doesn't increase the cost structure of the operation.

There's nothing non-capitalist or non-free-market about a worker collective. There are no laws against it. Nobody will try to stop you. You don't need a change in the government.

What are you waiting for?

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#128

Post by [deleted] »

fallingfrog wrote: post #85

Maybe this will be the moment when we realize that we actually don’t need billionaires or the whole rentier class at all? That we could all be working half the hours for the same standard of living without them? That we are effectively just serfs toiling at their pleasure?

[deleted]

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#129

Post by TheBlight »

happierlook wrote: post #62
TheBlight wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this won't be a popular take but I haven't seen any compelling data to indicate what we're dealing with is any more deadly than a cold. No one has any idea how many people have been infected by this virus. It is assuredly many many more than current tests have revealed as the only people being tested are healthcare workers and at-risk individuals. I wouldn't be surprised if over a million people in the U.S. ha…

Madrid is literally turning ice skating rinks into temporary morgues because they can't store all the dead bodies: https://news.yahoo.com/madrid-ice-rink-morgue-coronavirus-11... edit: And South Korea has tested 345k+ and only 9k have come back positive: https://www.cdc.go.kr/board/board.es?mid=&bid=0030

The PCR test will only catch active infections. An antibody test would reveal if a person has ever been infected. I suspect that number in South Korea is much much higher.

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#130

Post by TheBlight »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #124
rsweeney21 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S120197121...

You seem to be trying to suggest that COVID-19 is no worse than previous influenza epidemics. That does not seem to align with the facts on the ground. We are seeing historically high hospitalizations in many different countries, and certainly historically high rates of deaths. If your hypothesis were correct, we would have also seen this many times in the past.

We don't know what the mortality rate is because we don't know how many people have been infected.
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