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Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

andregarzia.com

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Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#711

Post by rs23296008n1 »

If privacy really is the thing, why can't I have an extension on ios to let me expire various cookies/storages on a per domain name basis, eg so I can write my extension to limit some cookies/storages to minutes or even seconds depending on how hostile or blacklisted such things are.

Other domains I'd actually prefer to be indefinite. I've got a notepad thing that uses local storage and doesn't store its data on the server. There's no excuse for deleting its data since its user data. Apple therefore has no permission to delete that data. Do I have a non-cloud workaround for that?

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#712

Post by xingyzt »

soapdog wrote: post #687
xingyzt wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know a PWA for Kindle? Their browser-based reader hasn't been updated for quite a while.

Their Kindle Cloud Reader is better than the native windows app IMO. I don't know when it was last updated, I first used it this year.

The Cloud Reader isn't a PWA. It's only available as a website and a Chrome OS app. Its UI is miles behind the Kindle apps on Android and iOS, which have better footnote support and font settings.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#713

Post by hokumguru »

rs23296008n1 wrote: post #711

If privacy really is the thing, why can't I have an extension on ios to let me expire various cookies/storages on a per domain name basis, eg so I can write my extension to limit some cookies/storages to minutes or even seconds depending on how hostile or blacklisted such things are. Other domains I'd actually prefer to be indefinite. I've got a notepad thing that uses local storage and doesn't store its data on the…

Yeah, an App. They’re kneecapping the PWA to make apps more appealing.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#715

Post by what_ever »

illuminati1911 wrote: post #709
seanabrahams wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PWAs haven't taken off because Apple won't implement full Push API support in Safari thus forcing you to go through the App Store if your web site or application needs push notifications. The App Store then complains if you try to publish an app that just wraps your web site so that you can have push notifications. It's... infuriating.

Yeah so maybe try making a real native app instead of trying to hackaround with web sites? Apple isn't obligated to implement every single "this is now cool on web"-thing on it's platform to satisfy small niche of people who will find value in them.

Are you an Apple employee? If not, as a consumer or developer why are you not talking from the consumer's point of view? I don't want to install each and every native app. As a developer, I don't want to write and maintain completely separate native apps.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#716

Post by gowld »

untog wrote: post #545
wubin wrote: post #483

The source clarifies that this only applies to websites run within the Safari browser.[1] PWAs added to the home screen aren't affected. > As mentioned, the seven-day cap on script-writable storage is gated on "after seven days of Safari use without user interaction on the site." That is the case in Safari. Web applications added to the home screen are not part of Safari and thus have their own counter of days of use…

I don't think that's actually what it clarifies. Or at the very least it's very confusing. > have their own counter of days of use. Their days of use will match actual use of the web application which resets the timer. This makes it sound very much like homescreen apps will have their data wiped after 7 days of non-use. > We do not expect the first-party in such a web application to have its website data deleted. And…

Suffice to say that the author of this blog post should have spent less time congratulating themselves and more time clearly explaining the impact of this change, to avoid scaring off developers and users.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#717

Post by rs23296008n1 »

hokumguru wrote: post #713
rs23296008n1 wrote: post #711

If privacy really is the thing, why can't I have an extension on ios to let me expire various cookies/storages on a per domain name basis, eg so I can write my extension to limit some cookies/storages to minutes or even seconds depending on how hostile or blacklisted such things are. Other domains I'd actually prefer to be indefinite. I've got a notepad thing that uses local storage and doesn't store its data on the…

Yeah, an App. They’re kneecapping the PWA to make apps more appealing.

I wonder whether my irritation over this is strong enough to App up JustAnotherIOSWebKitBrowser with an extra API just for per site storage explicitly controlled by user. Literally to run a notepad and some kind of extension thing.

Its likely blocked by app store rules. Supporting extensions is probably forbidden.

Anyone care to be more authoritative based on their AppStore knowledge/experience?

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#718

Post by 6510 »

cmsj wrote: post #428
Grimm1 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This impacts an app I've built for reading academic papers but I imagine the work around here is to write to a file periodically and then load the file in if you don't detect indexedDB having the data you think it should. Obviously this has error cases all its own and makes it more difficult to manage but it doesn't seem like Apple is killing it to me, just making us jump through hoops and add extra complexity. Don't…

I apologise for being rude, but IMO you didn't build an app, you built a web page. Web pages are things people look at one time or maybe many times, but they are just web pages that exist in a web browser for the lifetime of the tab they're in, and then they're gone. They shouldn't expect to have any persistent storage from the browser, and if the browser does make small affordances for storage, it's not reasonable t…

I really liked the web when it was just documents.

> you didn't build an app, you built a web page

"Progressive web apps use modern web APIs"

The word application is there twice. I don't have to like it.

> they are just web pages that exist in a web browser for the lifetime of the tab they're in

Evidently not. My opinion doesn't matter.

> They shouldn't expect to have any persistent storage

2016 "With Chrome 52, we're introducing the ability to make storage persistent"

> ...a clear lifecycle of installation and deletion that the user has complete control over.

I've never asked for 7 days

> it will never be as good as native apps

I don't develop anything for walled gardens. I cant wait for my linux phone.

> it creates an expectation that every browser will expand its functionality until it is effectively a full operating system.

This already happened. Again, I don't have to like it.

> I think the only reasonable case for the web-as-app model, is things that get installed to the home screen, in the sense that the user is then again given control of the lifecycle

But the user isn't given control over the life cycle. It's 7 days. No one asked for 7 days. It's just about short enough to be completely worthless?

I propose an interface where the pwa provides a picture of a cartoon animal, have fire at the bottom of the screen and each creature tumbling down at its chosen speed. Some 1 day, some 30, some 6 months. The user can opt to drag it up to save it. Notify the user with a soft screaming sound.

This is how it should work!

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#720

Post by PudgePacket »

Razengan wrote: post #692
burtonator wrote: post #543

I ported Polar ( https://getpolarized.io/ ) over to a PWA about a year ago. It's kind of a nightmare due to both Google and Apple messing things up. PWAs could be an amazing platform but both companies are really messing it up. Apple is trying to kill them by giving plausible explanations as to why they can't have PWAs. Security this, blah blah blah. There's no reason they can't have PWAs work well in Safari other th…

> ... Consumers are another problem. ... You blame Apple, Google and your consumers, instead of just making native apps. Why?

So, make 3 apps instead of 1? This was the whole idea behind PWA.
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