Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure • Hacker News Board

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#101

Post by cbsmith » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 11:53 PM UTC

cultus wrote: post #65

kvee wrote: post #31

This is a generally unpopular opinion, and I don't know that I agree with it, but it does appear that the billionaires might be logically right from an ethical perspective. It might cost more QALYs (quality-adjusted life years) to have an economic recession the size of 2008 than to have millions die from COVID-19: https://medium.com/@benfinn/coronavirus-how-much-is-a-life-w...

You are making the very false assumption that we have a choice between deaths and economic collapse. Like it or not, we are seeing faster growth rates than Spain. With our awful response, we could be easily heading for 2+ million deaths if hospitals get overloaded as expected. Workers will not show up anyway because it is dangerous for them and their families (this is already happening). This will cause the economy t…

It cuts both ways though. Mortality rates from unemployment are no joke.

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#102

Post by wolco » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 11:53 PM UTC

ck2 wrote: post #47

cushychicken wrote: post #8

What if, at the tail end of all this, a bunch of people find that they've tried remote work and decided: "Hey - this fucking rules! " In part because they've realized that they can complete their core work duties in less time, with less distractions, and zero commuting. Maybe - just maybe - this could be the unplug that helps people prioritize the things that they enjoy over their work. I recognize that's a viewpoint…

Once jobs can be sourced to anyone who can work from anywhere and businesses get it down to a "science", guess what: your job can now be replaced by anyone working from anywhere. In any country, with much lower wages. No-one's skillset is that unique.

Including CEO's, boards and companies themselves. Once we get it down to a science we will just do it ourselves and not need a company to provide that service in the first place. Refrigeration put many companies that gathered ice from the Artic or Antarctic out of business. Interesting the Queen still gets her water this way.

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#103

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 11:54 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #21

misiti3780 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i agree, i have been trying to help out anyone i can with bigger tips, gift cards from resturants, etc i just feel like its not going to be enough.

I'm getting takeout, encouraging other people to get takeout and I run r/Gigworks. (And I'm not a tech worker. I'm a dirt poor freelance writer, but I'm at least still working because I've done remote work for years.) I'm trying to light my teeny, tiny little candle rather than curse the dark. The pizza place I've been going to regularly for carryout is doing a bit better than they were two weeks ago. I've discussed…

Upvoted.

I'm trying to light my teeny, tiny little candle rather than curse the dark

Thanks for that. It's apparently frowned upon in the tech community to have a positive attitude, but I really hate negativity. Find the good in the situation and work with it.

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#104

Post by scotty79 » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 11:54 PM UTC

oulu2006 wrote: post #6

This shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Billionaires are billionaires because of the extreme disproportionate gains by the few at the expense of thousands/millions. They're used to seeing the many slave away for their interests. Not seeing that happening now is throwing their view of proper world order into chaos and they're not used to be back in a position without control.

Billionaires also know that work does some damage to the workers. So working during pandemic is not qualitative difference for them, just quantitative.

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#105

Post by scotty79 » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 11:55 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #88

oulu2006 wrote: post #6

This shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Billionaires are billionaires because of the extreme disproportionate gains by the few at the expense of thousands/millions. They're used to seeing the many slave away for their interests. Not seeing that happening now is throwing their view of proper world order into chaos and they're not used to be back in a position without control.

Any person or group in the US can start a worker cooperative and run it as they see fit.

Are they competitive if they don't exploit their workers like companies do?

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#106

Post by kazinator » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 11:55 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #88

oulu2006 wrote: post #6

This shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Billionaires are billionaires because of the extreme disproportionate gains by the few at the expense of thousands/millions. They're used to seeing the many slave away for their interests. Not seeing that happening now is throwing their view of proper world order into chaos and they're not used to be back in a position without control.

Any person or group in the US can start a worker cooperative and run it as they see fit.

No labor laws apply to worker co-operatives? That's surprising.

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#107

Post by kvee » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 11:56 PM UTC

cultus wrote: post #65

kvee wrote: post #31

This is a generally unpopular opinion, and I don't know that I agree with it, but it does appear that the billionaires might be logically right from an ethical perspective. It might cost more QALYs (quality-adjusted life years) to have an economic recession the size of 2008 than to have millions die from COVID-19: https://medium.com/@benfinn/coronavirus-how-much-is-a-life-w...

You are making the very false assumption that we have a choice between deaths and economic collapse. Like it or not, we are seeing faster growth rates than Spain. With our awful response, we could be easily heading for 2+ million deaths if hospitals get overloaded as expected. Workers will not show up anyway because it is dangerous for them and their families (this is already happening). This will cause the economy t…

The calculations in the article I posted suggest "that if there’s a recession as bad as the last one, it could be even worse for well-being than tens of millions of deaths."

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#108

Post by cycrutchfield » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 11:57 PM UTC

cbsmith wrote: post #101

cultus wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making the very false assumption that we have a choice between deaths and economic collapse. Like it or not, we are seeing faster growth rates than Spain. With our awful response, we could be easily heading for 2+ million deaths if hospitals get overloaded as expected. Workers will not show up anyway because it is dangerous for them and their families (this is already happening). This will cause the economy t…

It cuts both ways though. Mortality rates from unemployment are no joke.

Please cite your sources. I'm not sure that historical analysis of the data supports your opinion. For instance: https://www.pnas.org/content/106/41/17290

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#109

Post by cultus » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 11:57 PM UTC

cbsmith wrote: post #101

cultus wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making the very false assumption that we have a choice between deaths and economic collapse. Like it or not, we are seeing faster growth rates than Spain. With our awful response, we could be easily heading for 2+ million deaths if hospitals get overloaded as expected. Workers will not show up anyway because it is dangerous for them and their families (this is already happening). This will cause the economy t…

It cuts both ways though. Mortality rates from unemployment are no joke.

That's so plainly a much, much smaller cause of death. I'd encourage you to examine evidence more in the future. Besides, mortality rates actually tend to decline during recessions. While the causes of this are still debated, it has been observed for a century [0].

Besides, as I was saying, we don't have a choice between deaths and collapse. You get collapse and fewer deaths or collapse and more deaths. We are choosing the former.

[0] https://fortune.com/2019/01/25/economic-downturn-mortality-r...

Re: Billionaires Want People Back to Work. Employees Aren’t So Sure

#110

Post by scotty79 » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 11:57 PM UTC

kvee wrote: post #31

This is a generally unpopular opinion, and I don't know that I agree with it, but it does appear that the billionaires might be logically right from an ethical perspective. It might cost more QALYs (quality-adjusted life years) to have an economic recession the size of 2008 than to have millions die from COVID-19: https://medium.com/@benfinn/coronavirus-how-much-is-a-life-w...

Recession in what? You can have recession in yaht and dog stylist industries without many ill effects.

Many businesses will be booming in pandemic. Just not the usual ones and that pains the owners of usual ones greatly.