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Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

andregarzia.com

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Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#621

Post by p1necone »

awinter-py wrote: post #614

push messaging also doesn't work for PWAs on ios (it does on android) I get that controlling the walled garden is apple's mobile strategy now, but this is costing developers so much blood sweat & tears. Both xcode and android studio are heavy + horrible compared to web, and the fact that you have to use both tools to release at scale makes them worse. Shopify wrote a dev post a few months ago saying 'we're react nati…

Hasn't aggressively controlling the walled garden always been Apples strategy? I don't see them changing any time soon. iOS didn't even have an app store initially, and it took a lot of pushing for that to happen (they realized Android was going to eat their lunch if they didn't).

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#622

Post by npunt »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #502
mulmen wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand this. If you want to make something local, make an app and distribute through the app store, that's what it is for. A web app on the other hand is connected by definition, no? Apple forcing local apps to distribute through the app store is a feature .

You should research the original plan for "apps" on the iOS platform. There was no "native app" story originally, and Javascript-based applications were expected to be the only 3rd party platform on the OS.

As should you. It’s not that an app ecosystem was never planned, it’s that it was not an early priority. Remember they were literally defining everything at the beginning - OS, UX, APIs, core features, hardware, first party apps, market positioning, etc etc. Needs of third party developers weren’t nearly as important as nailing the basics and ensuring a risky project was a success. The html5 app bit was a way to test the waters for developer interest and demand but very much an interim solution.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#623

Post by vxNsr »

icedchai wrote: post #582
rezz wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To an end user there’s an icon on their screen, they tap it, the app opens. It didn’t matter if they downloaded from the AppStore or from a website. This is no longer the case which is why the OP is upset.

Pretty sure it is still the case if they have connectivity...

Its not, at least not based on how the OG article is written. If you open your bank app it automatically tries to log you in if you saved your credentials in the past. This seems to say that if you don't use the app for a week it'll wipe that out. No one expects that.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#624

Post by recursive »

Gorbzel wrote: post #287
vetinari wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we had to make non-electron, native version of our app, that would mean Windows[1] and Android, because that's where the current users are. Forget the rest. Is that the future you want? [1] And they would not be happy about that either. For many that would mean RDP or Citrix. They prefer webapp right now.

Sure, keep your (likely crummy if you’re OK with Citrix as a primary use case) Windows and Android apps. The market will decide. Your comment is just on the user-hostile side of assuming it will prefer your technology choices.

It would only be citrix if it was made a native app. It is presently a web app, presumably because it was determined to be a better choice. You proposed that it should be a native app. It would be the customers that would choose Citrix, but they'd probably prefer web apps (if they're anything like my customers).

The deployment story is so much better for web apps, which is the main reason it seems to be so compelling for big enterprises.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#625

Post by pier25 »

nicoburns wrote: post #358

I really hope the outcry about this is big enough to get Apple / Webkit reconsider. With service workers and improvements in browsers/cpus "PWA"s (aka web apps) were just getting to the point where they could compete with native apps for a number of use cases. And they had much better privacy / security policies. This doesn't completely kill that, but it's a big setback.

> I really hope the outcry about this is big enough to get Apple / Webkit reconsider

I seriously doubt it. Apple has been undermining web dev for years.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#626

Post by larkost »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #502
mulmen wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand this. If you want to make something local, make an app and distribute through the app store, that's what it is for. A web app on the other hand is connected by definition, no? Apple forcing local apps to distribute through the app store is a feature .

You should research the original plan for "apps" on the iOS platform. There was no "native app" story originally, and Javascript-based applications were expected to be the only 3rd party platform on the OS.

That was not the plan, that was the stopgap. Apple (and even more the networks) were very scared that native apps would have unregulated access to the radio, and would mess with the cell networks. Web apps were the quick-and-dirty way of putting third party apps into a sandbox while Apple worked on APIs that would enforce that sort of sandbox for native apps (what they have now).

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#627

Post by p1necone »

asadlionpk wrote: post #507
seanabrahams wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PWAs haven't taken off because Apple won't implement full Push API support in Safari thus forcing you to go through the App Store if your web site or application needs push notifications. The App Store then complains if you try to publish an app that just wraps your web site so that you can have push notifications. It's... infuriating.

Seeing all the "enable notifications" popups on every site I visit, I am happy that Apple doesn't allow this for websites.

https://www.ghacks.net/2016/02/19/disable-show-notifications...

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1208251

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#628

Post by andrewrothman »

I commented about this in a different thread about the same topic earlier today, but I'll post here as well.

I can understand Apple's decision to do this, as there's a lot that can be improved about offline storage on the web:

* asking for user permission (i've seen demos try to exhaust the users' storage, and trackers can use this to invade privacy) * async writes and reads

However, making a change like this with no suitable alternative leaves PWA developers stuck in a hard place. I'm not sure what can be done in the short term here.

There's a few web specs that address these issues. I'd love to see them come further along, and maybe improve things for developers and users in the long run. If anyone knows, is there anything that members of the community can do to support these efforts?

https://chromestatus.com/feature/6428344899862528

https://wicg.github.io/kv-storage/

https://chromestatus.com/feature/5715811364765696

https://storage.spec.whatwg.org/

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#629

Post by LocalH »

osrec wrote: post #570
rstupek wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... can run riot on your filesystem"? Citation needed because an app is as heavily sandboxed as a web page running in a browser. An ios app gets no view into anything you as a user don't choose to give it (no access to photos, etc).

I mean, if you give the app access to your filesystem (which a lot of non-tech users would, almost without thinking), it can potentially access/modify/delete your files and folders. With PWAs, that's not really a possibility.

Stock iOS doesn’t allow apps to directly access data from other apps afaik

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#630

Post by vxNsr »

falcolas wrote: post #526
woodson wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means you constantly have to re-login on a PWA (e.g. Twitters web client PWA).

Constantly being weekly at most frequent in this case.

I roll my eyes every time robinhood makes me login again after an app update... though it hasn't happened in a while, so maybe they fixed that bug, but it was annoying when it's an unexpected hurdle that doesn't follow what other apps are doing.
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