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Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

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Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#361

Post by finaliteration »

nicoburns wrote: post #356
finaliteration wrote: post #350

I’m a little confused by this and maybe I’m missing something. Wasn’t localStorage always intended to be treated as a volatile storage mechanism for non-critical data and caching? The advice I’ve seen for several years says to avoid storing sensitive or critical data there. Can PWAs not switch to using IndexedDB which seems like it’s more purpose-built for this use case? No snark intended. I’m legitimately curious wh…

> Can PWAs not switch to using IndexedDB which seems like it’s more purpose-built for this use case? IndexedDB is also subject to the 7 day limit. Leaving no persistent storage for web apps at all.

Ah, I missed that in the original documentation and most of the discussion I've seen has been around localStorage. Thank you!

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#363

Post by majormajor »

judge2020 wrote: post #352

Is there any evidence that local storage is being used as a pseudo-cookie way of tracking users? If so, keeping local storage saved while regular cookies are being deleted would defeat the purpose of deleting cookies for anti-tracking reasons.

I was in the adtech world about ten years ago, and localstorage was definitely one of the things used for "supercookie" stuff (along with Flash, etags, and probably other stuff I'm forgetting).

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#364

Post by hosteur »

judge2020 wrote: post #352

Is there any evidence that local storage is being used as a pseudo-cookie way of tracking users? If so, keeping local storage saved while regular cookies are being deleted would defeat the purpose of deleting cookies for anti-tracking reasons.

This is exactly what it is about. I welcome the move from Apple. Web devs can store state server side. They cry because tracking will be harder now.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#366

Post by soapdog »

rconti wrote: post #357

> What are private client-side PWAs anyway? (proceeds to not answer the question) Found the answer: Progressive Web Apps[1] 1: https://medium.com/@amberleyjohanna/seriously-though-what-is...

Sorry, I wrote this blog post too fast because I was/am a bit angry and didn't notice my usage of jargon without explanation.

It is a “Progressive Web App”. Sorry for the jargon usage without explanation. Basically it is a marketing term used to place some new web APIs and best practices into an umbrella of a “near native UX on a Web App”. What it usually means is that your application is:

* Served from a secure context (a requirement for the other APIs anyway).

* Has an application manifest (this contains metadata about your web app and is used by browsers and OSs to add icons, names, themes, etc)

* Has a service worker (which enables your application to potentially work offline beyond what other cache solutions did in the past)

So with these in place, browsers can offer a “Install this site and an app” feature which allows the site to open in its own window, with its own icon and name on the launchers and home screens.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#367

Post by soapdog »

wolco wrote: post #360

It doesn't scale from device to device for settings or items that should stay for longer than a week. Local storage should be treated as cache.. it may get refreshed. What Apple did was fine. A backend isn't only for storage either.

It is not fine if you're creating apps that don't have a backend.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#368

Post by soapdog »

pat2man wrote: post #362

Sounds like the solution is to add the app to your home screen. I don't think its reasonable for a browser to let any site I ever interact with to store data on my device indefinitely

Even web apps that you add to your home screen are subjected to this.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#369

Post by rconti »

soapdog wrote: post #366
rconti wrote: post #357

> What are private client-side PWAs anyway? (proceeds to not answer the question) Found the answer: Progressive Web Apps[1] 1: https://medium.com/@amberleyjohanna/seriously-though-what-is...

Sorry, I wrote this blog post too fast because I was/am a bit angry and didn't notice my usage of jargon without explanation. It is a “Progressive Web App”. Sorry for the jargon usage without explanation. Basically it is a marketing term used to place some new web APIs and best practices into an umbrella of a “near native UX on a Web App”. What it usually means is that your application is: * Served from a secure cont…

Thanks for your reply :) I recognize often articles are meant for a specialized audience and shared here without the author even being aware of the site, so it's unreasonable to expect that everything be described to a total neophyte, but sometimes I have to laugh at the buzzword articles that get posted here about how to implement foo in bar on baz, using a fizzbuzz framework running blarg, and I have no idea what ANY of those things are, having worked in tech for decades :D

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#370

Post by soapdog »

hosteur wrote: post #364
judge2020 wrote: post #352

Is there any evidence that local storage is being used as a pseudo-cookie way of tracking users? If so, keeping local storage saved while regular cookies are being deleted would defeat the purpose of deleting cookies for anti-tracking reasons.

This is exactly what it is about. I welcome the move from Apple. Web devs can store state server side. They cry because tracking will be harder now.

I'm the OP and I'm crying because I'm working on apps that don't have backend so that your data is yours and never leave your computer. This is now impossible for WebKit users.
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