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Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

reuters.com

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Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#201

Post by derefr »

barkingcat wrote: post #200
derefr wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also lack of local sim doesn't mean you aren't transmitting. Yes and no. Airplane mode, turning your phone off, etc. But also, even if your phone is pinging the tower with your device’s IMEI... how would they know it’s your phone’s IMEI? There’s no registry mapping IMEIs to legal identities, in any country, AFAIK. Carriers have that information, but you wouldn’t have yet signed up with any Taiwanese carrier. So the…

This is probably thinking too high tech for some basic human int collection. It's easy enough to collect imei numbers at a checkpoint. It's also easy enough to find out from family members and friends and business connections (everyone works for someone, has a family, and friends, and even if none, there's always a bank account that paid for the airline ticket somewhere, attached to a passport). Think low tech. Taiwa…

> It's easy enough to collect imei numbers at a checkpoint.

True enough, I guess. Require that you turn all devices on, then either require unlock and look at the IMEIs yourself, or pass the person through a Stingray in an RFID cage.

But I would assume that if Taiwan was doing that, people would notice (requiring turning devices on is a very unusual step) and would have mentioned online somewhere that that’s something that happens when you visit Taiwan.

Also, it still won’t help if this immigration-evader turned super-spy is rolling their spoofed IMEI regularly.

(Also, where would they get the information on who your boss/company is? From your customs form? That’s one of those things too expensive to verify for every case ahead of time, so they won’t bother until they actually want to find you; in other words, that’s one of those things that’s perfectly easy to lie about. From your visa, presuming you need one? Information like that could be entirely outdated by the time you visit.)

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#202

Post by schee »

RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u wrote: post #43
bobbyd3 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did they get your information for the daily call? Just curious. Is everyone required to submit contact information? Or did they already have the required contact info for daily health checkups?

When you enter, you're required to fill out a health declaration form, which asks for your contact info. IIRC, it's not cross-referenced with immigration database. Naturally, some were not filled out correctly, maliciously or not. Of the reported cases, police got involved to track down said persons, and they were fined depending on the severity of the infraction. I don't know if the form DB is now cross-checked with…

Here's a quick concept graph https://imgur.com/a/XaQQ38Q

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#203

Post by hailwren »

derefr wrote: post #199
hailwren wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'd follow you from the airport. You could maybe evade if you were a trained expert who looked like a local national, but otherwise they'd just check CCTV (Taipei is covered in it) and follow your trail. I've never taken public trans out of TPE, so they'd probably just call the cab company and track you down that way. Otherwise, they would check the public trans cameras. Also lack of local sim doesn't mean you are…

> Also lack of local sim doesn't mean you aren't transmitting. Yes and no. Airplane mode, turning your phone off, etc. But also, even if your phone is pinging the tower with your device’s IMEI... how would they know it’s your phone’s IMEI? There’s no registry mapping IMEIs to legal identities, in any country, AFAIK. Carriers have that information, but you wouldn’t have yet signed up with any Taiwanese carrier. So the…

They wouldn't use the IMEI. Your phone also reports the IMSI which includes country code, network, and an identifier number. They'd only have to differentiate you from the other people from your country. By the problem statement, you didn't go straight to your hotel -- so you're probably going to be the only one.

And sure, you could leave it on airplane mode -- but you have to keep in mind that you are eventually going to be found, and I'm not really clear why we're even evading quarantine but when you are found the punishment is going to be much more severe if the government believes that you were intentionally avoiding detection. Keep in mind, Taiwan still punishes drug trafficking with death -- I can't imagine they'd look kindly on intentionally endangering their entire population.

Although upon further thought, IMEI should be fine too. Consider that international travel is mostly shut down right now. I'd be surprised if there are more than 500 international travelers at the airport within 30 minutes of you. They would just check every one against their quarantine reporting status (hint: EVERYONE else will be where they're supposed to be and checking in as part of the procedure) Then all you have to do is remove IMEIs that are at their correct reporting location one by one. I'd guess less than a hour's work given that the reporting is already being handled.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#204

Post by jlokier »

ShorsHammer wrote: post #196
jlokier wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments appear to be still working out the details of what to do, but you can look at those countries on the leading edge to see that they do come out of shutdown gradually and have other measures in place that are somewhat effective for COVID-19. > In our jurisdiction of just over 4 million people, we have 191 positive tests and 5 deaths. The number of new cases is already tiny, so how much lower do they have to…

South Korea never shut anything down apart from schools moving online. Their entire strategy was one of targeted isolation rather than blanket shutdowns. They've had one of the best results so far. Some of the responses out of the west really comes across as a kneejerk reactions by leaders who don't have the slightest clue what to do.

Last rumour I picked up from the news where I live, in the UK, is that the current plan is:

1. Shut down most of the economy to dampen the enormity of the tidal wave as peak pandemic hits, to reduce the overwhelm in intensive care units, and thereby reduce deaths.

2. After the peak (shape and size altered by 1) has passed and it is decaying, if the shutdown ends abruptly then the pandemic here will start up all over again. So instead, the shutdown will be eased off alongside extensive personal testing and individually self-targeted isolation.

I worry that 2 won't work so well because there are a lot of people who will turn into spreaders: Test negative at home for "had the virus", but in the phase where people who had the virus can get back out, will be happy to get out and pretend they had it already had it, hidden in plain sight among those who have. After all we already saw, here in the UK, that a lot of people are happy to be spreaders on the grounds that "only sick and old people are dying anyway".

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#205

Post by barkingcat »

derefr wrote: post #201
barkingcat wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably thinking too high tech for some basic human int collection. It's easy enough to collect imei numbers at a checkpoint. It's also easy enough to find out from family members and friends and business connections (everyone works for someone, has a family, and friends, and even if none, there's always a bank account that paid for the airline ticket somewhere, attached to a passport). Think low tech. Taiwa…

> It's easy enough to collect imei numbers at a checkpoint. True enough, I guess. Require that you turn all devices on, then either require unlock and look at the IMEIs yourself, or pass the person through a Stingray in an RFID cage. But I would assume that if Taiwan was doing that, people would notice (requiring turning devices on is a very unusual step) and would have mentioned online somewhere that that’s somethin…

"Also, where would they get the information on who your boss/company is?"

They ask you at the customs checkpoint. Human intelligence collection is the custom official's job. Even when coming through Canadian Customs border, they do (and are able to) ask directly: who do you work for. What do you do? What is your job? Do you have family here? Where do you live? How old are you?

Those are level 1 questions for crossing the border at pretty much any country.

Driving through the Peace Arch border crossing into the US, I've been asked all of those questions.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#206

Post by frankacter »

derefr wrote: post #135
frankacter wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My phone, which is satellite-tracked by the Taiwan gov to enforce quarantine, ran out of battery at 7:30 AM. By 8:15, four different units called me. By 8:20, the police were knocking at my door." https://twitter.com/MiloHsieh/status/1241540231595044864?s=1...

I meant in the case of a visitor to the country who hasn’t purchased a local SIM yet, where the only contact information on the customs form is the hotel’s front-desk number.

If you don't have a device/sim, one is provided.
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