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Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

andregarzia.com

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Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#141

Post by gsnedders »

diggan wrote: post #37
bg0 wrote: post #5

I really appreciate this link. I would have never seen this otherwise. It's kind of a disappointment for us on the enterprise side. Our main offering is an offline app where people are disconnected from the internet for weeks and we use localStorage to validate who they are. It's a bit vague about how this affects apps that don't use safari. Nevertheless, we might have to start to really think about the user experien…

Yeah, as far as I understand, cookies is the only storage method that will be left to use for long-term storage of user data. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me. Edit: getting downvoted without any reasoning provided, so I assume I'm incorrect, there are more/less ways of storing data in the future for Safari users?

Cookies expire in the same way.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#142

Post by kkarakk »

vetinari wrote: post #109
janoc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native app != Electron app (fortunately!) The less of that bloated slow crap the better.

If we had to make non-electron, native version of our app, that would mean Windows[1] and Android, because that's where the current users are. Forget the rest. Is that the future you want? [1] And they would not be happy about that either. For many that would mean RDP or Citrix. They prefer webapp right now.

I think apple DOES want this. Core markets cleanly segmented are probably a better value prop to apple than everything working everywhere and users being able to freely migrate between platforms

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#143

Post by machello13 »

untog wrote: post #134
madeofpalk wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m guessing that Apple will start hindering web apps because the new mouse support in iPadOS is going to be such a boon to web apps. As a web developer , I've never believed Apple has hindered web development on their platform, purposefully or not. They just don't spend their resources adding in WebBluetooth or whatever new API-of-the-day Google has decided to come up with. As I see it, their focus is on the user…

That’s a very rosy way of looking at it. iOS has had bugs with its “add to home screen” webapps that kicked around literally for years . If they were being “user first” they’d support it fully or not support it at all. Instead they implemented then neglected it.

How many users even know or care about that feature?

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#144

Post by spzb »

throaway9aaaapp wrote: post #131

Our company has started shaming iOS. We tell users that because of a commercial policy aiming to increase their revenue from their App Store, iPhones and Ipads "do not support the Web 2.0 technology enabling powerful experiences for web sites and web applications, while Android and Windows devices have been supporting this technology since 201x". We briefly explain in one sentence that it would not be the best use of…

Obviously I have no idea what your product is but if I got that message I'd just likely go to one of your competitors (assuming they exist). I wouldn't go and buy another device unless it was for an absolutely critical application.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#145

Post by tnorthcutt »

diggan wrote: post #37
bg0 wrote: post #5

I really appreciate this link. I would have never seen this otherwise. It's kind of a disappointment for us on the enterprise side. Our main offering is an offline app where people are disconnected from the internet for weeks and we use localStorage to validate who they are. It's a bit vague about how this affects apps that don't use safari. Nevertheless, we might have to start to really think about the user experien…

Yeah, as far as I understand, cookies is the only storage method that will be left to use for long-term storage of user data. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me. Edit: getting downvoted without any reasoning provided, so I assume I'm incorrect, there are more/less ways of storing data in the future for Safari users?

Not sure if this answers that, but: https://webkit.org/blog/8613/intelligent-tracking-prevention...

Cookies can either be set in HTTP responses or through the document.cookie API, the latter sometimes referred to as client-side cookies. With ITP 2.1, all persistent client-side cookies, i.e. persistent cookies created through document.cookie, are capped to a seven day expiry.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#146

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

OzzyB wrote: post #111
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a native app developer, I can live with this.

As long as you start refering to the "i" in "iPhone" as Intranet and not ~Internet~ then we're cool.

I have nothing against hybrid apps. In many use cases, they are the best approach, and I have often declined business, in recommending them to others, as opposed to what I can do.

My post was not an attack on anyone or anything, and it was not being snarky. All I said was that I develop native apps, and that this policy does not affect me.

I like developing native apps. I've been writing native Apple software for 34 years. It's not really difficult; just different. I have also been developing "Internet" software, of all kinds (full stack), since before the WWW. Using Apple stuff. It certainly can be done.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#147

Post by tarkin2 »

All moves of Apple's towards privacy are tempered with the knowledge that smooth, successful webapps hurt the iPhone's business proposition.

Apple want to move you closer into their walled garden with the prospect of enhanced privacy.

The idea that iPhone apps are more private than web app because Apple must approve your apps is troublesome.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#148

Post by diggan »

gsnedders wrote: post #141
diggan wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, as far as I understand, cookies is the only storage method that will be left to use for long-term storage of user data. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me. Edit: getting downvoted without any reasoning provided, so I assume I'm incorrect, there are more/less ways of storing data in the future for Safari users?

Cookies expire in the same way.

With cookies you can set the expire time yourself, as a developer. And looking at the list of the original blogpost from webkit (https://webkit.org/blog/10218/full-third-party-cookie-blocki...) it shows the following will be affected by the 7 day cap:

Indexed DB, LocalStorage, Media keys, SessionStorage, Service Worker registrations

Since cookies are not mentioned, I'm assuming it's NOT affected by the 7 day cap but will instead continue to work as normal (except for the fact that 3rd party cookies will stop working, which is a Good Thing)

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#149

Post by untog »

machello13 wrote: post #143
untog wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very rosy way of looking at it. iOS has had bugs with its “add to home screen” webapps that kicked around literally for years . If they were being “user first” they’d support it fully or not support it at all. Instead they implemented then neglected it.

How many users even know or care about that feature?

How is that relevant to the conversation? If it is so little-used as to be irrelevant then the user-first thing to do would be to remove the functionality but Apple haven’t.

I can speak from personal experience that users do use it when you include specific instructions on how to use it. And it’s used in a number of corporate settings for installing webapps on an iPad.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#150

Post by Grimm1 »

felixfbecker wrote: post #117
im3w1l wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't change the status quo. Important data wasn't put in cookies before, and it wont be after. It was always a recipe for data loss. Server side, or if you need privacy, have the user export to / import from a local file.

This is also about IndexedDB. Imagine native apps had all their data wiped if you don't open them (with an active internet connection) every 7 days. Not just on an iPhone, but also on macOS.

This impacts an app I've built for reading academic papers but I imagine the work around here is to write to a file periodically and then load the file in if you don't detect indexedDB having the data you think it should. Obviously this has error cases all its own and makes it more difficult to manage but it doesn't seem like Apple is killing it to me, just making us jump through hoops and add extra complexity. Don't mistake me though this seems like an anti-competitive move from them to prevent people from circumventing the app store.
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