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Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

andregarzia.com

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Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#131

Post by throaway9aaaapp »

Our company has started shaming iOS. We tell users that because of a commercial policy aiming to increase their revenue from their App Store, iPhones and Ipads "do not support the Web 2.0 technology enabling powerful experiences for web sites and web applications, while Android and Windows devices have been supporting this technology since 201x". We briefly explain in one sentence that it would not be the best use of our resources to try to bypass Apple's technological decisions but that they should contact Apple for further information.

We then link them to a $30-$50 Android device that they can buy on Amazon and use as a second device to use our services "if they are interested in a more powerful web experience". We provide a basic version to all users, but put a shamewall for advanced features. Best use of our time and resources.

It is time to push back, stop making Apple's problems your problems. Educate people without ranting and offer them solutions, developers have the bad habit of trying to cover up this kind of non-sense and taking the blame while really Apple are the ones who should be ashamed. If people love your product/service getting a $30 phone to be power users and make their life easier and their experience richer will not be a big deal for them. It's all about educating them the right way.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#132

Post by kkarakk »

arghwhat wrote: post #4

Better title: Apple restricts tracking by limiting browser storage, which hurts my particular app. Browsers need to be severely limited due to them running arbitrary code from the web. Doesn't matter if it's an offline web app. If you want more access, make a native app (with or without web technologies).

OR maybe it's apple's responsibility to figure out how that usecase can exist without security flaws?

As a customer, I'm tired of devices functionality being limited coz "security risks". Functionality that is arguably superior to native apps apart from the security risk.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#133

Post by sandstrom »

How would static "single-page" apps (HTML/JS/CSS) that store session tokens in localStorage avoid 7-day auto-logout?

Perhaps using something like this: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Credential_...

Anyone know of other Web APIs that could be used?

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#134

Post by untog »

madeofpalk wrote: post #125
robenkleene wrote: post #60

I’m guessing that Apple will start hindering web apps because the new mouse support in iPadOS is going to be such a boon to web apps. Because of sandboxing, web apps are the only cross-platform apps that can run in their full versions on iPadOS. I wrote a quick summary of the situation[0]. Therefore, since native apps are more of a platform differentiator than web apps, moving forward we can expect Apple to start sys…

> I’m guessing that Apple will start hindering web apps because the new mouse support in iPadOS is going to be such a boon to web apps. As a web developer , I've never believed Apple has hindered web development on their platform, purposefully or not. They just don't spend their resources adding in WebBluetooth or whatever new API-of-the-day Google has decided to come up with. As I see it, their focus is on the user…

That’s a very rosy way of looking at it. iOS has had bugs with its “add to home screen” webapps that kicked around literally for years. If they were being “user first” they’d support it fully or not support it at all. Instead they implemented then neglected it.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#135

Post by _0w8t »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #113
arghwhat wrote: post #4

Better title: Apple restricts tracking by limiting browser storage, which hurts my particular app. Browsers need to be severely limited due to them running arbitrary code from the web. Doesn't matter if it's an offline web app. If you want more access, make a native app (with or without web technologies).

It's not "limiting browser storage", it's making browser storage expire. TFA's example is just some random app, but this essentially kills the entire concept of an offline-first web app, and severely hurts the browser as an application platform.

Web apps brings nothing in revenue to Apple.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#136

Post by untog »

throaway9aaaapp wrote: post #131

Our company has started shaming iOS. We tell users that because of a commercial policy aiming to increase their revenue from their App Store, iPhones and Ipads "do not support the Web 2.0 technology enabling powerful experiences for web sites and web applications, while Android and Windows devices have been supporting this technology since 201x". We briefly explain in one sentence that it would not be the best use of…

What technologies does Safari not support that you need?

That’s a genuine question by the way. I’ve been frustrated by Apple’s reluctance in the past but since they implemented Service Workers things have gotten better. I still really wish they had Web Push but I do understand at least conceptually why they’d be hesitant.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#137

Post by heynk »

oefrha wrote: post #102
heynk wrote: post #69

I'm an engineer at a platform that makes it easier to build privacy-friendly apps. This means that all apps on our platform have app-specific private keys stored on the client side (in localStorage), and they never touch a server. With this change, you're essentially "logged out" after 7 days of inactivity. This is pretty a bad user experience. I honestly am not sure how to mitigate this. MacOS Safari might not be a…

Being logged out after 7 days of inactivity could be a little bit annoying but I can live with that, as long as I can log in again. I could be misinterpreting your comment but are you saying your keys are simply destroyed upon this “log out”? Then I’m not really sure why your platform was considered working in the first place, if it’s tied to a specific browser of a specific device and won’t survive a clearing of sto…

No, it's not tied to a specific device. You can of course log back in, and keys are not "destroyed". We ask users to store a 12-word seed phrase, from which all other keys are derived from.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#138

Post by jdxcode »

sandstrom wrote: post #133

How would static "single-page" apps (HTML/JS/CSS) that store session tokens in localStorage avoid 7-day auto-logout? Perhaps using something like this: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Credential_... Anyone know of other Web APIs that could be used?

might have to use cookies

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#139

Post by greggman3 »

arghwhat wrote: post #4

Better title: Apple restricts tracking by limiting browser storage, which hurts my particular app. Browsers need to be severely limited due to them running arbitrary code from the web. Doesn't matter if it's an offline web app. If you want more access, make a native app (with or without web technologies).

Wouldn't making it first party only cover it? I don't see how this has anything to do with privacy/tracking. webpages can still leave long term cookies. The only way this is a privacy issues is if 3rd party iframes can use localstorage but just like 3rd party resources have their cookies blocked so to could localstorage.

Otherwise this has absolutely nothing to do with privacy or tracking.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#140

Post by kkarakk »

fierarul wrote: post #12
arghwhat wrote: post #4

Better title: Apple restricts tracking by limiting browser storage, which hurts my particular app. Browsers need to be severely limited due to them running arbitrary code from the web. Doesn't matter if it's an offline web app. If you want more access, make a native app (with or without web technologies).

But browsers are severely sandboxed already. What the article is talking about is: > deleting all local storage (including Indexed DB, etc.) after 7 days which I can see how it might help privacy (since you could be tracked via local storage too) but also how it might break any potential web app that might need data to last more than 7 days. > If you want more access, make a native app But then, everybody will compla…

More likely that apple and the other corporations are also evolutionary dead end and this is a temporary hiccup
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