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CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

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Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn’t there any political will to completely overhaul civil service hiring, pay, qualifications, “tenure”, and so forth?

I'm going to give a very cynical response to this, but I believe all of these factors are relevant. I'm also going to be going against the grain of the political leaning of this forum. I hope that we can discuss the points where we agree and avoid getting stuck at the first point of disagreement. Factors: 1. Typically, people who wish to be in power are not the people who really want to use power for some greater goo…

I would argue Congress’ power is weak compared to the career civil servants who decide whether policy should actually be implemented or not. Popular politics serves as a complete distraction while unelected bureaucrats make most of the decisions behind the scenes.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#302
post #121

The damage will be much longer lasting than this. The Chinese bought the US precious weeks to prepare while it locked down vast numbers of its own population. The disaster could have been prevented through a vigorous testing/quarrantine program in Washington and California. At every step of the way the US either bungled testing, or actively discouraged testing. It's been nothing but lies and mistakes from the start.…

I don't know why you are so obsessed with testing? In the US, if you have a medical problem, you go to the doctor. The doctor may order tests. If you are not sick, or the doctor doesn't think you need certain tests, they don't order the tests.

It was never possible to ramp up test kits for 350M people and it's not going to help anyways. You test negative one day, then...what? You can still catch the virus! It's a false sense of security.

Japan is handling the crisis the best of any nation so far--calmly, without idiots posting on web forums about their non-expertise and not giving in to who can yell the loudest.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#303
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These problems are not due to an "administration". The rot of American institutions is deep. The competence and coherence of the entire American civil service and civil life has fallen precipitously in the last 20 years, and, in part because of their irrational fixation on this administration, people still cannot wrap theirs head around the fact that problem is in personnel and structure. The CDC botched the developm…

You are being kind. From my perspective, the ineptitude and mismanagement easily goes back 50 years, not 20. It's sad to see so many people blinded by the hatred aimed at Trump to be completely blind to how it is we got here. A simple example from data that came out today: Governor Cuomo refused to buy 16,000 ventilators in 2015, when he was told they would be needed for an event such as what we are experiencing. Rem…

All correct. Also, Snowflakes think the country can run all shut down, but not if you want food on your table. We have to get back going, take our hits, and survive. The alternative is worse.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#304
post #121

The damage will be much longer lasting than this. The Chinese bought the US precious weeks to prepare while it locked down vast numbers of its own population. The disaster could have been prevented through a vigorous testing/quarrantine program in Washington and California. At every step of the way the US either bungled testing, or actively discouraged testing. It's been nothing but lies and mistakes from the start.…

I don't know why you are so obsessed with testing? In the US, if you have a medical problem, you go to the doctor. The doctor may order tests. If you are not sick, or the doctor doesn't think you need certain tests, they don't order the tests. It was never possible to ramp up test kits for 350M people and it's not going to help anyways. You test negative one day, then...what? You can still catch the virus! It's a fal…

>> "without idiots posting on web forums about their non-expertise and not giving in to who can yell the loudest."

What are your credentials?

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the mask shaming that was perpetuated in the US.

You’ll still get looks for wearing a mask. It’s ridiculous.

Well, I am in the Midwest and there is hardly anything going on here, so yeah, wearing a mask would be kind of out of place. Anyways, I basically stay away from people anyhow.

Our hospitals here are all losing money waiting for a crowd that may never arrive. Kids are silly miserable. We're losing our way of life and our nation to mass hysteria and we need to be strong instead.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of these people are passersby on the street who would have no opportunity to touch something I've touched. I heard from someone who wore a mask recently who was flat-out told, "You're overreacting." It's not just caution, there is some kind of social insistence that the masks are not necessary and even to be discouraged, which I even sense in myself when I'm out and about without a mask and see others wearing th…

I think it has to do with their (incorrect) assessment of the situation. Rather than reevaluate their assessment (as that would increase their anxiety), they rationalize your assessment as overreaction.

It is not an airborne infection.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you use the word “administration” are you thinking about a few hundred elected and directly appointed officials or the hundreds of thousands of government employees? Because it seems like the employees bungled the job.

Not for nothing, but we are 3 years into an administration that has done everything it could to push out career employees with lifetimes of expertise. There have been failures from the top to the bottom. But let’s not pretend that there hasn’t been a systematic, intentional degradation of these agencies that has only served to exacerbate those failures.

The US is extremely top heavy with government workers, most of whom weren't doing much of anything. There are other considerations here, you can't just have it all. "Career employees with lifetime experience?" You have to be kidding me, most government employees are not very productive.

Also, you're sitting here complaining while your way of life is going down the toilet. We need to be looking at how to move forwards. What's done is done.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn’t there any political will to completely overhaul civil service hiring, pay, qualifications, “tenure”, and so forth?

I'm going to give a very cynical response to this, but I believe all of these factors are relevant. I'm also going to be going against the grain of the political leaning of this forum. I hope that we can discuss the points where we agree and avoid getting stuck at the first point of disagreement. Factors: 1. Typically, people who wish to be in power are not the people who really want to use power for some greater goo…

> I'm also going to be going against the grain of the political leaning of this forum. I hope that we can discuss the points where we agree and avoid getting stuck at the first point of disagreement.

I agree 100% with the points you made. These are important points to understand, each with its own set of tentacles and consequences. It is also true that HN (and other fora frequented by a younger generation) tends to lean heavily towards an ideological framework that, from my perspective, tends to be the result of the intense indoctrination our educational institutions have been shoveling for decades.

> 1. Typically, people who wish to be in power are not the people who really want to use power for some greater good.

This is universally true anywhere in the world. Politics is not a profession where altruism reigns. Even with Trump, this is only my opinion, I believe he decided to run because Obama put him down and diminished him in a very public way during that famous WH dinner. Once in the race, and particularly once he won, he clearly decided to do a good job. He has a record for being the only politician who has, so far, delivered on everything he promised during the campaign. Is he altruistic? Well, no, I don't think so. He is as self serving as anyone else, but at least he is (was?) getting important things done.

> does it make to fight for these policies right now in this bill?

I was absolutely baffled by the strategic blunder. Is Pelosi so powerful that nobody dared go against her? What they did is nothing more than sheer madness, not to mention the disgusting stench of using a national emergency of this magnitude to strong-arm the other side into adding irrelevant items to an economic rescue plan.

> 2. Our political system centralizes all decision-making power into two parties.

I've been saying for a long time that our system of government is obsolete. It had a good run, but this makes no sense. A simple example pulled out of the current environment is the gate-keeping of medical decisions by a bunch of 70 year old lawyers in the Senate and a hodge-podge of people in the House. To me it would make sense to decentralize this power and, effectively, have "Vice Presidents" and teams who are not political parties to manage important areas of our country. In other words, you would have a VP of Health and an executive team under him/her. The fact that someone like Trump or Pelosi have power over medical/healthcare policy and actions is a failure of the system.

> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo

The second option should be the most powerful one. However, as we have seen both in the US and elsewhere, the masses are easily manipulated, which can lead to bad decisions. My canonical example of this is the whole Bernie business. In a rational society he would have been laughed out of the political stage decades ago. Yet, here he is. I am not sure how to counter irrationality other than to somehow push hard to change our system of education for greater balance and critical thinking, a task that would not deliver results for a decade or two.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you are being snarky: Are you aware that the sensitivity quoted was mostly in symptomatic and hospitalized patients and not those in the very earliest stages who could also be shedding less virus? Are you aware that each false negative can infect N others, some of whom might have also been previously tested, and also be greenlit to deal with high-risk populations like nursing homes? Are you aware that your 4^x…

My favorite game. Are you aware that the test can be improved by training medical personnel on sampling technique? Are you aware that tests will, as a general rule, improve? Are you aware that the majority of people understand the difference between 70% and 100% accurate? Are you aware that public policy was affected by poor data on the spread? Are you aware that it's far easier to successfully test [nearly] everyone…

So after you try to belittle me about not understanding 4^x vs 1^x, you are now talking about future efforts, hopes how an entire medical community can be retrained, etc. Let's stay focused on the real world and not some hypothetical past where we were like South Korea. None of your comments apply to a 1^x spread in the current system since we aren't testing many people, and in hot spots, we aren't testing hardly anyone outside those in hospitals.

Here's where we agree. We agree that the only way this can be contained is massive lockdowns, and I believe this particularly true in the face of unreliable and unavailable testing. I also think it has to be coordinated across the country to prevent constant reseeding. We agree that testing everyone would've been good, particularly in the containment phase, but that ship has sailed.

My original point is that under the current system where we are occasionally testing the public at large, and also using swab RT-PCR just after suspected infected contact (way before symptoms like Pence, etc), the variable sensitivity is troubling.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#310
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It largely the fault of the current leadership as well as the political party in power. In last 20 years they have destroyed institutions when in power and stopped the other political party to revive them when they were not in power. All the government lockdowns and blocks when Obama/Democratic party wanted to spend money on healthcare are there to see. Though Democrats are not blameless nor is the American public fo…

Spending money on healthcare wouldn't have helped. You could treble the capacity of the healthcare system and it wouldn't make that much of a difference. No system is ready for 1-3% of the population suddenly requiring weeks of time in a hospital bed. The countries that are coping with this aren't doing so by putting everyone in great, well funded hospitals. They are avoiding people getting sick through combination o…

Spending money on healthcare would have helped. Actually would help now currently in the us doctors and nurses are complaining about lack of protective wear. In reality it is available but hospitals are not buying and providing them to it staff as they are expensive. Had US been investing on healthcare hospitals would not be worried about running out of funds and not protectings its doctors and nurses.
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