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Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
121–130 of 927 posts
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#122This "feature" also invalidates the use case for WebCrypto API, since a user's keys would be stored in IndexDB, which now means keys cannot be safely persisted.
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
If this were true, how would you explain the recent improvements to Safari on the iPad that make it as capable as desktop Safari. Until last year Google Docs did not work in Safari on the iPad. Now it works very well indeed. The same is true of most web apps.
This particular move takes something that is possible in web applications today and makes it not possible in the future (offline capable frontend-only applications), making the gap between native applications and browser applications further, so developers who need to build apps that works offline on iPhone, will only be able to use Apples own technologies for doing so, in a non-cross-platform way. Which in general,…
It could also be exactly what they say it is: a way to prevent the abuse of local storage for tracking.
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you want more access, make a native app (with or without web technologies). How's installing a native app better for a random user privacy or security wise, exactly?
You have to send every change to Apple before the user can run the code. In theory, that allows Apple to do more checks than when the code is dynamically loaded from your web server.
I'm sure apple catch all privacy violations of their so developers.
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#125I’m guessing that Apple will start hindering web apps because the new mouse support in iPadOS is going to be such a boon to web apps. Because of sandboxing, web apps are the only cross-platform apps that can run in their full versions on iPadOS. I wrote a quick summary of the situation[0]. Therefore, since native apps are more of a platform differentiator than web apps, moving forward we can expect Apple to start sys…
> I’m guessing that Apple will start hindering web apps because the new mouse support in iPadOS is going to be such a boon to web apps.
As a web developer, I've never believed Apple has hindered web development on their platform, purposefully or not. They just don't spend their resources adding in WebBluetooth or whatever new API-of-the-day Google has decided to come up with.
As I see it, their focus is on the user, which is why they've been slow to adopt APIs that are privacy concerns, or drain battery, or have other negative implications.
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree. The IndexedDB was introduced as a permanent way to store data (which is not deleted after closing a website). As it is the only available standard for permanent storeage, I think it should be deleted only if the user asks to delete it (the same way you delete any other file in your computer). Of course, browsers are free to do whatever they want. But the user can (and will) switch to the software, which d…
You disagree with the status quo implemented in browsers or you disagree with the decisions that were made years ago (by browser vendors), because you basically cannot guarantee for that (disk full, privacy settings, private browsing, etc.)?
It's different if there is a technical limitation (disk full - computer tend to barely function in this state anyway), or the user has opted in to ephemeral storage. But to not give users the choice to store things permanently is quite a severe restriction.
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#127Better title: Apple restricts tracking by limiting browser storage, which hurts my particular app. Browsers need to be severely limited due to them running arbitrary code from the web. Doesn't matter if it's an offline web app. If you want more access, make a native app (with or without web technologies).
But browsers are severely sandboxed already. What the article is talking about is: > deleting all local storage (including Indexed DB, etc.) after 7 days which I can see how it might help privacy (since you could be tracked via local storage too) but also how it might break any potential web app that might need data to last more than 7 days. > If you want more access, make a native app But then, everybody will compla…
Apple requires that all code-related assets for an app should be included into the app. So the app cannot just be a launcher that show a browser with a website.
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#128Posts like these are much more convincing when they simply make a case for some allowance or some functionality, or point out the downsides. The moment they go into whataboutism or grander claims of conspiracies or ill intentions they fall apart.
Rational readers click back and move on. You end up just preaching to the choir.
This particular complaint is paradoxical because Apple birthed web apps, and has done more than anyone to make them a reality. Unfortunately they remain a very rare beast -- extraordinarily rare -- and are dwarfed by the privacy concerns of people using iOS just to browse. So the team dealt with that. Seems a fairly obvious pros and cons analysis.
Maybe they'll add an exception for installed to desktop webapps.
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
This particular move takes something that is possible in web applications today and makes it not possible in the future (offline capable frontend-only applications), making the gap between native applications and browser applications further, so developers who need to build apps that works offline on iPhone, will only be able to use Apples own technologies for doing so, in a non-cross-platform way. Which in general,…
It could also be exactly what they say it is: a way to prevent the abuse of local storage for tracking.
People who want to track users will always find a way to do so, it's a endless cat-and-mouse game. Now they will just use cookies instead... The only way to win this is to legislate away the freedom to track users by using privacy-invasive methods. That's the only way that will work long-term. But that'll make half of the internet industry disappear, along with it's shareholders, so it's unlikely to happen.
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#130Better title: Apple restricts tracking by limiting browser storage, which hurts my particular app. Browsers need to be severely limited due to them running arbitrary code from the web. Doesn't matter if it's an offline web app. If you want more access, make a native app (with or without web technologies).
Genuine question: what makes native ad frameworks different here? They execute with the same privilege of their containing app so surely they’re open to similar privacy concerns. Shouldn’t native apps have their storage cleared?