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Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

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Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#71

Post by abcd_f »

jbk wrote: post #53

I really wish I knew how to get great designers... VLC is a product, that is widely used, usable (not the mac version, though), but it is extremely ugly. It is quite hard to get designers to help us (redesigning all the buttons for example) for quite many reasons. The biggest reason is that we don't speak the same language. Many designers don't understand the criticism that usually comes around with each modification…

Great designers are in demand. Time is their most valuable asset, so in order to get a piece of this asset they must be offered a form of compensation. They clearly do not need to be designing for "would look great on your portfolio" nor they are likely to be enticed by the "gratitude of the masses". The only non-monetary compensation that works is to make them genuinely interested in helping -- and that if you think about it is the exact reason why devs give free time to open source projects. If it's not interesting, they leave.

So as harsh as it may sound the answer to your question is that you just cannot get great designers. There's virtually nothing you can offer them in return. If you do manage to get someone on board, do shield them from the "community". Work one on one and put all your weight behind his designs when they are made public. Leet hackorz that are so vocal on many O/S forums and mailing lists can easily demotivate even Mother Teresa in a matter of few replies.

HTH, feel free to vote me down now :)

(edit) On a second thought VLC might be one of few projects that can attract a designer because of its high-visibility nature. Yet the point remains - designers are easily demotivated, way easier than developers, so retaining them is a major challenge.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#72

Post by ohkine »

jbk wrote: post #53

I really wish I knew how to get great designers... VLC is a product, that is widely used, usable (not the mac version, though), but it is extremely ugly. It is quite hard to get designers to help us (redesigning all the buttons for example) for quite many reasons. The biggest reason is that we don't speak the same language. Many designers don't understand the criticism that usually comes around with each modification…

My problems with VLC go beyond the interface, but its hideous UI is a major reason why i don't use it (i'm on OS X). I have seen many many people online try to work around this problem, at least aesthetically, by skinning or editing NIBs or whatever -- have any VLC developers attempted to court those people? Have you considered just asking them if they'd be willing to help? Or if they would be OK with having their NIBs incorporated into the official project?

edit: Another problem that i didn't think of when i wrote the above is that, since VLC is a multi-platform application, any SERIOUS interface changes -- changes to work flow, arrangement of options and menus and the like -- need to be copied over to the other platforms.

For instance, VLC's transcoding function, whilst very featureful, is incredibly irritating to use, interface-wise. Suppose i had the solution to this, and i provided it to VLC. That's step one, but in order to get that actually put into the product, not only do i need to have done my part, but then you need presumably multiple programmers to actually get it implemented in the Mac, Windows, and Linux versions.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#73

Post by lovskogen »

jbk wrote: post #53

I really wish I knew how to get great designers... VLC is a product, that is widely used, usable (not the mac version, though), but it is extremely ugly. It is quite hard to get designers to help us (redesigning all the buttons for example) for quite many reasons. The biggest reason is that we don't speak the same language. Many designers don't understand the criticism that usually comes around with each modification…

I'm a interface designer and a VLC user. I'd love to help. How? Who's the key decision makers? If the interface needs alot of code to get right, will this be prioritized?

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#74

Post by tibbon »

lotides wrote: post #12

Why I don't contribute to open-source projects: I feel like a second-class citizen around developers. And I don't want to venture in to the lions den. After all, I "just make things pretty", right? I hate politics. Many open-source projects are a power-struggle with entrenched developers guarding against change. Design is all about visual relationships. Making a change to one small aspect to the design effects everyt…

I think you've hit the nail on the head with your final point. As programmers, you can point to your Github repo as your resume. In the design industry, they don't care about your Github repo (or will even understand it), and they'll bug you about some part of the program that you didn't even contribute to or were responsible for.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#75

Post by [deleted] »

jbk wrote: post #53

I really wish I knew how to get great designers... VLC is a product, that is widely used, usable (not the mac version, though), but it is extremely ugly. It is quite hard to get designers to help us (redesigning all the buttons for example) for quite many reasons. The biggest reason is that we don't speak the same language. Many designers don't understand the criticism that usually comes around with each modification…

[deleted]

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#76

Post by jbk »

ohkine wrote: post #72
jbk wrote: post #53

I really wish I knew how to get great designers... VLC is a product, that is widely used, usable (not the mac version, though), but it is extremely ugly. It is quite hard to get designers to help us (redesigning all the buttons for example) for quite many reasons. The biggest reason is that we don't speak the same language. Many designers don't understand the criticism that usually comes around with each modification…

My problems with VLC go beyond the interface, but its hideous UI is a major reason why i don't use it (i'm on OS X). I have seen many many people online try to work around this problem, at least aesthetically, by skinning or editing NIBs or whatever -- have any VLC developers attempted to court those people? Have you considered just asking them if they'd be willing to help? Or if they would be OK with having their NI…

OS X version of VLC is unmaintained, because the mac community doesn't care about it...

Editing a NIB and not making it open source, is near useless for the community...

Not to mention that the developers don't have to court those people, it should be the other way around... They should propose their design. This goes for everyone, developers, translators, technical writors... Why would designers be different?

Finally, about the transcode part, this is not a designing issue, but a usability issue...

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#77

Post by jbk »

lovskogen wrote: post #73
jbk wrote: post #53

I really wish I knew how to get great designers... VLC is a product, that is widely used, usable (not the mac version, though), but it is extremely ugly. It is quite hard to get designers to help us (redesigning all the buttons for example) for quite many reasons. The biggest reason is that we don't speak the same language. Many designers don't understand the criticism that usually comes around with each modification…

I'm a interface designer and a VLC user. I'd love to help. How? Who's the key decision makers? If the interface needs alot of code to get right, will this be prioritized?

How? Come and discuss on IRC, or by mails.

Key decision makers on that part of VLC is 2 or 3 people at max.

If the design is there, the code will follow, believe me.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#78

Post by lovskogen »

tibbon wrote: post #74
lotides wrote: post #12

Why I don't contribute to open-source projects: I feel like a second-class citizen around developers. And I don't want to venture in to the lions den. After all, I "just make things pretty", right? I hate politics. Many open-source projects are a power-struggle with entrenched developers guarding against change. Design is all about visual relationships. Making a change to one small aspect to the design effects everyt…

I think you've hit the nail on the head with your final point. As programmers, you can point to your Github repo as your resume. In the design industry, they don't care about your Github repo (or will even understand it), and they'll bug you about some part of the program that you didn't even contribute to or were responsible for.

Depends who you want to work with. 37signals keeps on emphasizing that they'll look up possible new hires. Having a repo on Github is all positive.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#79

Post by ErrantX »

rue wrote: post #36
jacobolus wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re missing the point. If an open-source project treated a programmer with the same lack of respect, I wouldn’t expect any different a response. There’s no “contract” that says I have to volunteer my time to someone who won’t even appreciate the donation. On the other hand, I’m not sure it’s fair to indict all open-source projects based on one side of a single story. I’d be interested to hear more of the details i…

I understand what you're saying…but as an open-source contributor I certainly expect that my code can be modified for various reasons. I guess a “work of art” would feel more personal, and (unless given a tight spec of elements that must be included) is more of a candidate for either rejection or admission as-is. For changes I'd certainly expect a request “can you add a wizard hat on the ninja?” rather than someone m…

Yes, but.

Imagine you wrote a piece of code and then spent a couple of hours optimizing it to remove various bottlenecks etc etc.

You submit the patch, it sits there for a couple of days, then a designer (bear with me) comes along, takes a look, cuts out your optimisations to "simplify the code" and applies the patch.

You'd feel pretty rejected.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#80

Post by zavulon »

jbk wrote: post #53

I really wish I knew how to get great designers... VLC is a product, that is widely used, usable (not the mac version, though), but it is extremely ugly. It is quite hard to get designers to help us (redesigning all the buttons for example) for quite many reasons. The biggest reason is that we don't speak the same language. Many designers don't understand the criticism that usually comes around with each modification…

> usable (not the mac version, though)

Heh. Obviously as VLC's developer you know better, but FWIW I've been using VLC on Mac OS X extensively, as my primary video player. I don't think it's unusable, or ugly at all.. I can't be the only one, can I?

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